Reunion Responses

Hello Friends,

The previous post on this blog asked a series of questions about the upcoming Remnant Family Reunion Retreat in May in Colorado. The questions have troubled me, but I’ve avoided answering the questions for a couple of reasons—mostly because I’m not the event organizer.

But these questions need answers, and so I’ve sought and received permission from the Lord and the event organizers to provide some answers. In doing so, I realize I’m quite imperfect, and ask for your patience and forgiveness of my weakness. I’m doing my best to answer as correctly as I know how.

Disclosure: Bret and Samantha Corbridge are the organizers of this event. I am not. But because Bret has asked me to help with some of the planning and logistics, I have intimate knowledge of the event. I have also done what I can to publicize the Reunion on my blog. I’ve made it no secret that I plan to attend. I’ve been directed by the Lord to do so.

I give the above disclosure because I think you ought to know my intent, where I’m coming from, and why I’m at least somewhat qualified to answer the questions that have been asked.

So here are the questions that were posed, together with my answers:

1       With the limited time and financial resources available to me, what valid reasons are there for me to spend my time and money going to the first remnant retreat/gathering, when the organizer told me that Denver Snuffer was specifically not invited to attend because he would be a “distraction”?

Actually, the correct wording is “Denver Snuffer was not specifically invited to attend.” In other words, this event was not designed or set up to be about Denver Snuffer. It is about Christ. Denver IS absolutely invited to attend, just like anyone else. If he does choose to attend, we hope all the other attendees be willing to not let Denver be the focus.

2       What kind of gathering would Denver Snuffer be invited to?

He’s invited to this one, as is everyone else who wants to come. A more important question is why should Denver’s attendance affect mine or yours? Whether he comes or not should not be the determining factor for anyone else’s attendance. Nobody is coming to worship Denver.

3       What kind of gathering would he attend?

I guess you’d have to ask Denver. I know he’s been to bike week in Sturgis a number of times.

A more important question might be, “What kind of gathering would Christ attend?”

4       How do I get an invitation to that one?

I hope we’d all agree that the invitation that matters most is the Lord’s invitation to gather to Zion. We all hope to be invited to that one. This Reunion in May is NOT that Zion invitation. Those who are led by the Lord to come to the Reunion should come. Those who are not, should not.

5       What valid reasons are there for me to spend my time and money going to a gathering conceived of and organized by a man who told me that he was personally rebuked by Denver Snuffer? Why would Denver Snuffer rebuke anybody?

Bret Corbridge provided the following quote:

“Denver Snuffer is a prophet of God. That’s what real prophets do, they rebuke errors. And since I am a flawed man, I stood in need of being rebuked. I am grateful for the correction, and I have learned that not following this man’s council, when it is in harmony with the Holy Spirit, is unwise.

“What is really sad is that someone would use his rebuke of my weaknesses, to imply that the rebuke related to this Remnant retreat.”

6       What valid reasons are there for me to spend my time and money going to a gathering which the second witness at Denver Snuffer’s Phoenix talk is not planning to attend?

If your requirement is that Denver Snuffer and Keith Henderson attend any event you attend, then this is clearly not the event for you. It might be worth considering why there is this desire to elevate Keith Henderson or Denver Snuffer as the determining factors whether this event is worth attending. Would Denver or Keith be comfortable with people doing that?

7       What valid reasons are there for me to spend my time and money going to a gathering where three of the six original speakers (myself included) backed out after praying to know whether or not to attend/speak?

Some were invited to speak, and have chosen not to. The reasons are between them and the Lord. I have no problem with the idea that some have chosen not to speak, and their reasons are not my concern. Those who have consented to speak have received the Lord’s approval to do so.

8       Who are the three substitute speakers?

The speakers have not been announced. They absolutely do not want attention, notoriety or acclaim, nor do they want anyone to attend to hear “them.” This event is focused on Jesus Christ. It shouldn’t matter who speaks, as long as Christ’s word is spoken.

9       What valid reasons are there for me to spend my time and money going to a gathering and listening to a featured speaker who has an active internet blog where they advertise and promote the gathering at which they themselves are scheduled to be a featured speaker?

Several of the speakers have blogs. Should they be excluded from speaking because they blog? Or because they promote an event they believe will be uplifting and worthwhile?

10      Is it possible that they may increase in status among their own blog followers, and attract even more followers as a result of speaking at the Remnant Reunion?

It seems to me that they would be announcing their names if self-promotion were the goal. The fact is, they are specifically trying to avoid exactly what you are speaking of in this question! The speakers do not seek acclaim, position, “followers” or any other worldly honor. All the honor is Christ’s. This isn’t about the speakers.

11      If so, does this fit any definitions of priestcraft?

Steps have specifically been taken to avoid any appearance of priestcraft. I find it perplexing that on the one hand you want to take away the speakers’ self-imposed anonymity and provide them notoriety, but on the other hand question whether they are practicing priestcraft. They certainly are not seeking followers. Each of the speakers is there for the sole purpose of delivering the messages they feel the Lord wants them to deliver. It is a burden and a challenge for each of them. The focus is on Jesus Christ, not the speakers. I don’t know how to make that more clear.

This gathering is about Jesus Christ. Not Denver Snuffer, Keith Henderson, the speakers, or the event organizers. Let’s not make it about men.

I note with some sadness, that despite knowing the above and the speakers’ desire for anonymity, the original questioner has chosen to betray confidences and reveal some of the speakers’ names elsewhere. 

12      What valid reasons are there for me to spend my time and money going to a gathering where, as the organizer’s wife told me, women and their daughters may decorate themselves in blue and white clothing (similar to depictions of the Virgin Mary) and wear head jewels as they dance together on the mesa?

There is no plan for costumes or jewelry. There is a group dance planned, but it is not on the mesa, and it is not a ritual or ordinance. It is a Jewish folk dance, similar to what you would see at a Jewish wedding. It is fun, exhilarating, and communal. It is designed to honor God, but is NOT a ritual. Also, there is a a regular evening dance planned with country, swing, and waltz music. Any who don’t wish to participate are under no obligation to do so.

But golly, are we really that afraid of dancing?

14      What valid reasons are there for me to spend my time and money going to a gathering where women and their daughters may perform rituals using honeycombs that they bless in a “sacred ordinance” (which a Utah woman says she has received from the Lord for this purpose, based on Asenath, who used the technique to change her vibrational energy in order to convince Joseph to marry her)?

There is nothing in the plans that has anything to do with what you asked in this hypothetical question. There will be no honeycomb rituals or ordinances. (My sarcastic side wants to add, nor will there be nudity, human sacrifice, incense burning, peyote, or washings and anointings. Please forgive my sarcastic side.)

15      What valid reasons are there for me to spend my time and money going to a gathering where decorated women and their daughters may again exclude men from being present while they dance in the moonlight on the Mesa?

There will be no decorated women dancing in the moonlight on the Mesa. I would suggest you look at the agenda again. (I’ve linked to it at the bottom of this post.) The only time the men and women separate is during the day, and it is not for the purpose of performing rituals or ordinances. There’s no reason to ascribe unholy motives to men and women meeting together with people of their own gender (ahem…priesthood…relief society…) I appreciate the opportunity to be with and learn from my brothers, and my wife similarly appreciates the opportunity to do so with her sisters.

16      What valid reasons are there for me to spend my time and money going to a gathering where women and their daughters may anticipate that an entity they call Heavenly Mother will again be present and that there will again be physical manifestations of her presence in the clouds surrounding the moon, as there have been in the past when women gathered with the wife of the event organizer (to perform their Asenath honeycomb dance) on the Mesa?

I’m not sure where to even start with this question and its implied circumstances. Nobody will be worshipping or praying to Heavenly Mother. If there are physical manifestations in the heavens, that’s up to the heavens. The event planners do not control the clouds. The focus is Jesus Christ.

17      What is the difference between today’s LDS remnant women dressing up and dancing in the moonlight on a mesa, trying to change their vibrational energy, excluding their men folk, focusing on a female Goddess – and the ancient Israelite women doing the same thing?

I have no idea. Since this will not be happening at the retreat, I’m not sure how to answer this hypothetical. I suppose one could make up any circumstance and ask it as a hypothetical question. Again, if you want to know what’s on the agenda, I suggest looking at it.

18      Is there any difference?

See above.

19      How might God view such a gathering?

If you’re referring to the fictional scenario you painted above, I have no idea. If you’re referring to this reunion weekend gathering in general, I would suggest asking God. The event organizers and speakers are doing all they can to follow His will. We all hope for His approval. A great deal of time, effort, planning, sacrifice, fasting and prayer have gone into learning and doing the Lord’s will for this reunion.

20      How has God viewed such gatherings in the past?

See above.

21      If some people say they have prayed and God has told them to go to this gathering, but others who have prayed about it say that they have been specifically warned by God not to go, what am I to make of this?

My suggestion would be that God guides each person in the way they need to go. Blessed be His name.

23      If some people say they have prayed and God has told them to go to this gathering, but the person they have publicly said that they pray to is an entity they call Heavenly Mother, what am I to make of this?

I’m content to leave that between each person and God. I’m certainly not the judge of whether they prayed in the right way, to the right person, and got the right answer. I’m only responsible for myself.

24      If some people say they are just going to this gathering for social reasons, do not plan to pray about it or feel the need to, and say publicly that God is perfectly capable of stopping them from going if that is His will, what am I to make of this?

That’s their business. Is it our place to judge their reasons for going? All are welcome.

25      Will the spirit, approval and protection of God be over this gathering?

Probably better ask Him. I’m certainly praying it will. If you love your brothers and sisters, I invite you to pray it will, too.

If so, how do I personally reconcile all of the above questions?

You have not sought to personally reconcile the above questions. You have sought to do so publicly and in so doing have sowed many seeds of doubt and fear, based on fictional scenarios. You personally know the event organizers, and could have easily asked them these questions privately if your intent was merely to get answers. Your actions and efforts are proof that your intent was to publicize your problems with this event and its organizers.

Bret and Samantha have stated from start to finish what this event is about and have invited all to ask God whether they ought to attend. That is how you get your answer. All the above questions are irrelevant if God directs you to attend.

26      If the spirit, approval and protection of God will not be over this event, what might that say about the organizer, who says publicly that the reunion gathering is directly commissioned and led by Jesus Christ, who has communicated in person with him about the details of the event on numerous occasions?

And likewise, what might that say about the attendees, speakers, and even the vocal persecutors and detractors? We should all, every one of us, seek God’s favor. Failure to do so does NOT condemn the organizers of this event any more than the errors of the LDS church condemn Joseph Smith.

27      If the spirit, approval and protection of God will not be over this event, what might that say about the speakers?

See above.

28      If the spirit, approval and protection of God will not be over this event, what might that say about the participants?

See above.

29      If the spirit, approval and protection of God will not be over this event, how might that affect all the innocent, impressionable children attending the event with their parents?

If the spirit, approval and protection of God ARE over this event, how might that bless all the innocent, impressionable children attending the event with their parents?

As to the above 4 questions about the Spirit, approval and protection of God not being there, I would ask what if the Spirit, approval and protection of God ARE there? What would that change?

Which assumption should we start with? And what does our starting assumption reveal about our motives and our faith?

30      How can I find out how God views this particular gathering?

I recommend asking Him. I did ask Him. You’ve asked 29 questions so far, and now, with question 30, you’ve finally hit the nail on the head. 

But of course, you already knew the answer to this question. You know that posting questions on the internet is not the way to find out God’s will. Therefore, whatever your intent was in posting these questions, your readers are left to conclude it was not about seeking to know God’s will.

31      Why would I want to do so?

That’s for you to answer. I wanted to do so because I care deeply about doing God’s will. So I asked His will for me in this matter, and I’m trying to do it.

32      Does Denver Snuffer’s April 10, 2015 blog post: “A Reminder” have any relevance to my questions?

That’s for you to decide. Or you could ask Denver.

Now having done my best to answer the questions posed, I’d like to pose some of my own.

  1. What if this reunion is not what the above fictional scenario questions imply, but rather is exactly what has been represented by the organizers? That is—focused on Jesus Christ, led by the Spirit, and carefully planned to only follow God’s will?
  2. What if this event turns out to be uplifting, sacred, and wonderful for those who attend? What if they attend with the expectation that it will be so?
  3. What if Christ is honored, truth is taught, friendships are formed, and the attendees are strengthened in their ability and resolve to follow the Savior?
  4. What if the speakers deliver messages from the Lord, filled with light and truth?
  5. What if angels attend?
  6. What if spiritual gifts are manifested?
  7. Do you think the Lord wants this positive scenario to take place?
  8. If those who are planning to attend want the above to happen, how might they prepare?
  9. If those who are planning NOT to attend also want the above to happen, how might they lend their prayers and faith to the Lord’s purposes?

I ask these questions because the intent of the organizers is the scenario I’ve written above. Hopefully, the intent of most of the attendees is likewise. If the above outcome is worthwhile, I can’t imagine why any follower of Christ would seek to prevent this from happening.

Even if they aren’t attending themselves (especially if they aren’t attending themselves) why would anyone spend their time and effort criticizing, finding fault, or seeking to undermine this event? (There absolutely are those seeking to do so.)

I would ask such people to please search their hearts, consider their motives, and perhaps consider doing what they can to uplift and help their brothers and sisters have a wonderful, Christ-centered experience. I would also warn them, in the spirit of love, that perhaps the best approach is not to fight against this event, lest they should inadvertently find themselves in opposition to God, or responsible for harming others.

I think Gamaliel’s advice is as sound today as it was when he gave it:

“And now I say unto you, Refrain from these men, and let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.” (Acts 5:38-39)Reunion Cover 2

May God bless us all to love one another, make allowances for one another’s weaknesses, and allow one another to obey His will in peace. I invite all who are attending the reunion and all who are not attending to join with me in praying that Christ will be honored and His purposes will be fulfilled in this event. May He bless it to be so.

For those who need it, here’s the link to the information packet where you can find the Reunion agenda and schedule.

25 thoughts on “Reunion Responses”

  1. Thanks Adrian, I will consider your words. And pray for those who are planning the event and speaking at the event. You are right. It is all up to each of us asking God individually about this event. I’m speaking for myself and others here, I and many of us have experienced great deception on this walk. Sure, I am very fearful of being deceived. It is true that there are so many lying and deceitful spirits all about us. They are in concentration, focused on those who are about preserving the restoration. I pray that those who have part in the event are heeding the will of God, and not the false spirits.

    I am sorry for my finger pointing and condemning words in the post on Lynne’s article.

  2. Seeing the right questions and right answers makes me even more easily see the deceit in the original article. Well done.

    Lynne–I still have both brotherly love through Christ for you, but also righteous indignation for your actions. God has told me by revelation things that are not pretty about the things you write. I’ll leave in your hands to see if he says the same to you as he did to me.

    I’ll give still my opinion though. Your work on Heavenly Mother and the reunion has seemed more like trolling than real, worthwhile additions to the mission of the restoration. From such things, turn away.

    You have the capacity to do great things. Few people would trouble themselves with the rediscovery of the gospel. Don’t fall to things like this.

    To Adrian–the more opposition we receive, the better, because there be far more with us than there are against us. I have learned that Satan’s tricks are all smoke and mirrors when we ask for, know, and do the will of God. He is no match for Christ! Hallelujah! 🙂 Blessed be our King…

  3. As I see the counsel to Lynne to pray for those attending the event “if she loves them…..” I would like to add—IF You (anyone that has read and or commented on her post) Love Lynne, then Please pray for her and forgive her and show an increase of Love to her, unless it was only your intent to post your comments. We ALL make mistakes and I hope we can be allowed to help each other through these kinds of things.

    Lynne, I want you to know you are loved and I pray for you. I know the Lord can help you through this and I am here for you too.

  4. Thank you for taking time to write this response. I am appreciative. I feel we’ve all got a lot of work to do within ourselves if we are to individually find the Christ and collectively love, serve, and worship Him by our good works to others. May God bless us all.

  5. I am happy to associate with fellow believers. I’m grateful for all the effort that has gone to organizing this event. I have been saddened each time fear has been injected into the dialog about this event. I plan to attend with love in my heart toward my fellow believers. When amazing things happen at the event, I will rejoice that the work of the Lord is moving forward. When less than desirable things happen along the way, I pray to God this his will is fulfilled in His creation. The rest is up to us to decide how we choose to react. I pray that I always respond with love, NOT fear.

  6. Thank you, Adrian, for taking the time to write this, and to coordinate with Bret and Samantha. I’m observing lately that there are many who lead by service. Their influence is earned by that service. This is the Lord’s method of leadership. It is the only true leadership. I appreciate the love of Him that is reflected in your service. It is so important that we all learn this.

  7. At the “Wedding Feast of the Lamb” the good and bad are welcomed in and indeed partake of the sup that is prepared for the poor. Apparently the only requirement is the Garment. Which is the covering of our shame (sin) provided by Christ through his sacrifice.
    Good or bad. haha, That means I can go. 🙂 peace..

  8. Thank you Adrian. I appreciate you taking the time and providing your answers to Lynne’s post.

  9. Adrian I appreciate such a beautiful and thought out response that I feel was sincere and full of love.

    I appreciate actually this whole discussion and experience. The WHOLE thing. This whole experience I think, has been difficult for many. Lynn, although your post came off to some as spiteful and condemning. (I have to be honest, I did to me) I realize it really is because of your passion and love of The Lord. You love Him so much that maybe you fear to do wrong and make wrong choices in His eyes. You fear deception from darkness and being led astray. I completely get it and I completely understand that feeling. I have been there.

    But like I said before, to my very core, I believe that fear is NOT a tool of God. I believe that is one of Satan’s greatest tools actually. I mean, look at all that unfolded the last couple days. Look at what happens when we allow thoughts of negativity, when we think worse case scenarios in our heads for events that haven’t even happened. Think of the emotions that came and look how it affected the entire group of readers one way or the other. It caused division, it caused pain, and it caused sadness to many. If that is how we choose to communicate and interact with each other, then Zion will always just be a dream.

    If we focus on fear and darkness, then that is what will manifest. But if we focus on The Lord and love, then I believe that is who and what will manifest.

  10. Thanks Adrian. Excellent answers!! Appreciate the rebuttal to this debate. Clear and concise.
    As you said , ask The Lord if you should attend or not then do as he says for you.
    Thanks again for clarifying answers, they will be helpful fire many I hope.
    God bless

  11. Where have all the HATERS gone??? ……crickets….. anyone?? anyone?? Reminds me of the fools who brought the woman taken in adultery before The Master… “let he who is without sin…cast the first stone”… and then they all stood silent….. Adrian has once again shared light and truth….funny how it doesn’t matter which blog he is on…. the results are the same.

  12. Boy, you supporters of this retreat event sure are spiritually thin-skinned. You feel perfectly justified in throwing 10,000 bricks at the LDS Church and it’s leadership, and when some questions are raised about the propriety of YOUR activities, well that’s not subject open to question. Many of you who have replaced following one set of men for DS (or any of the other 600 schisms from Mormonism) need to be careful lest the spiritual wave you are riding is going to lead to your spiritual oblivion. And for those of you who insist on invoking revelation from the Lord: your arguments are not persuasive to me, since God will not give you “inside information” to use as a club to compel others to believe you. If I receive revelation through the Holy Ghost (and I have on many occasions) and that conflicts 100% with your revelation, then only one of us can be correct (though we both could be wrong). God bless.

  13. Karl,

    For some reason my perspective is entirely different than yours. Rereading through all of the comments I see way more faith and stability in those who were being asked about these things than those who were questioning. I didn’t see any instability from them or any tantrums or fits or being tossed about. Of course everyone’s perspective is different.
    About following the Holy Ghost. Yes let’s do it! You follow whatever the Holy Ghost tells you and I will do the same! Even if those things seem completely contradictory we can rest assured we are attempting to follow God on a personal level, without the voices of any men (No matter how awesome some people think those men might be) swaying us one way or the other.
    If we theoretically could not trust the POWER of the Holy Ghost, then I would have some things to say to God next time I saw Him. I would tell Him that on the next go around He better make it easier for people to recognize truth, and that the liahona thingy was broken. I think personally most people don’t even care to seek revelation by the Holy Ghost on a lot of important topics, they just are content trusting in other people, or they think they are smart enough to judge without revelation on something. Or even worse they simply don’t believe God will give them a sure revelation so they just never get around to asking, instead they rely on studying what others have said, or using external evidence to chooose. But hey if someone does claim revelation from God then my advice is to always go with that, even if it contradicts something I, or anyone else has received.

  14. I am going to confess up front that I am not part of what is being referred to as the “remnant”. Hence, I really don’t relate to those that are going to the party or those that are not going to the party and I don’t have a horse in this race, other than being highly entertained by the comments in these last two posts.

    I do, however want to make one small observation.

    It seems to me that the people who have questions and concerns that they want addressed are being mocked and marginalized because they don’t simply have the faith to ask God if they should go to the party or not.

    It seems to me that if we have been taught anything from Oliver Cowdery’s response from the Lord, and countless other scriptures, it is that we have been commanded to study things out in our minds BEFORE we petition the Lord for an answer on any given issue.

    Is that not what those people with questions have been doing?

    Is it a major crime to ask questions and try to get the facts before petitioning the Lord?

    I can make a strong scripture backed case for the fact that if you don’t do your due diligence before petitioning the Lord, you will simply get the answer YOU want to get.

    I must confess that when I first read about the invitation and very mysteriously omitted information about who would be speaking at the party, etc., I was shocked at how naive and gullible anyone must be to simply spend time and money going to an event that the organizers were unwilling to give detailed information about.

    God does not do things in the dark. He does them openly.

    I figured it was only a matter of time before someone became so confused and frustrated that something like this took place.

    What kind of people will ask God a question about going to a party and traveling across the United States, without first doing their homework to better understand what the hell the party is going to entail.

    Mocking people as being “unstable” and “fearful” because they don’t want to check their brains at the door is laughable.

    It is because of simple minded people who function on blind faith and who check their brains at the door that the current church is in the condition that it is in today.

    If there would have been more saints in the early history of the church that would have asked good, well thought out, doctrinally sound questions, and refused to give the leaders of the church carte blanche, we would not all be in the dark situation that we are currently in with the corporation.

    Praise the Lord for people who spiritually mature enough and have the gonads to ask some hard questions.

    1. Good points. I agree for the most part, the only thing we may not agree upon, is that from my perception, Lynne seemed to have more of an agenda in her questioning than simply getting answers. It appeared she was also trying to paint a picture, and a very biased one at that. That seemed very clear when I read it but again everyone reads things differently. Tim even joked about a shit storm brewing in his previous post before Lynne’s. Innocent questions would not have made Tim hesitate in posting them.

    2. Outcast,
      The problem, as I see it, was not asking questions. That IS of course the first step toward getting answers. The error as I saw it was that she didn’t take it a step further and work the answers out in her mind. And she posted those raw questions publicly with, I believe, the intent to sow doubt and discord among those who were even less informed than she was.

      The entire problem, as I see it, was that she did NOT think it through. She stopped with the questions, and the questions were framed in such a way as to guide the reader to some very false conclusions.

      If we are to “work it out in our minds” then we have to do just that: work it out, ponder it, figure things out, THINK IT THROUGH. But most of all, she could have ASKED Bret directly. It looked to me as though she began with the conclusion that this thing was all wrong, and by doing so, she assumed things that were ridiculous. Most damning, in my opinion, was that when contacted by Marti and Another Voice with corrections to her false assumptions, she refused to modify, remove, or recant her earlier accusations. The inability to admit when we are wrong is prideful, and I think it was her downfall in this case. To publicly assert “questions” in the form of facts, then refuse to admit error when confronted with the facts, resulted in many people who still have not read this OP to believe those accusations still stand as fact. Very sad.

  15. I agree wholeheartedly with an outcast! Thank you for sharing your thoughts. I don’t know Lynne’s intent but Everyone makes mistakes and what an outcast brought up, I have thought the same things! From the posts I read people were mocking her, telling her what to think, what to do, etc, etc, saying things like fear is not from God. Well, neither, is mocking, and compelling someone to take her post down because she didn’t understand things, contention, etc, etc,…..Well, it is not a sin to not understand things.

    People sure are willing to point out her wrong doings, but as usual don’t worry about their own! I see this as just another pick and choose who “certain people” want to rally around and forgive, reach out with forgiveness, compassion, and Love Unfeigned! I guess it’s only for certain people…..a few months ago many good hearted people made it a point to forgive, reach-out and want to help a person who took people’s money…..must be nice to have friends like that!

    Of course the answer to Everything is study and pray about it….so I guess no one really need to make another blog post ever….everyone should just study and pray and learn from the Lord and NO one else!! Ya’ll take care now, ya hear!

    Lynne, is there a way I can get a hold of you to talk to you?? Please let me know. Thank you

  16. Oh, I forgot to add…..there really didn’t need to be a shit storm….people reacted and chose to post how they did-just like I am choosing to post how I do…..

    Plus, I forgot to add, some people get kicked to the curb and cast out while others are helped… sweet!

    1. After seeing what has transpired her these last few days i am absolutely scared to death to ever ask a question on one of these sites. Im not good at expressing myself in a way that some may take offense to. It is never intended but i guess i have always assumed that if offense was taken in any way then the problem is ultimately with person who got offended. Im sure everyone felt completely justified in how they reacted on ether side of this thing but that does not make it right. The way i see it the only person who has ever been justified to take any offense would be the Lord and he did not. I do feel that this is a great time for everyone to turn their thoughts to their own mind and re evaluate everything that has gone on here. Im reminded of a phrase i would hear when i was growing up. “Go sit your ass in the corner and think about what has happened here”. Maybe its a good time for all of us do just that. It couldnt hurt.

  17. Rock

    You said:

    ” The problem, as I see it, was not asking questions. That IS of course the first step toward getting answers. The error as I saw it was that she didn’t take it a step further and work the answers out in her mind.”

    The point I am trying to make is that she was unable to “work the answers out in her mind” without arriving at the conclusions that you disagree with, because the organizers withheld the information that she needed in order to get a full and accurate answer to her prayers.

    Allow me to present a hypothetical scenario for the purpose of making a point.

    Lets suppose that the person that posted their questions is a truly good person with a pure heart.

    Lets assume that she was not motivated by a desire destroy the party or adversely destroy reputations, but rather was sincerely concerned about raising the warning voice about the possibility of the party being infiltrated by questionable and non-biblical rituals or some other concern.

    Perhaps she truly was trying to protect members of the remnant from the “false spirits” that have “gone abroad in the earth” that are mentioned in section 50

    Lets suppose that she did prayerfully study things out in her mind before prayerfully arriving at her conclusions or concerns.

    Lets assume that she became concerned and was not able to get a fully accurate answer from her prayers because of the lack of information that she was given about the party.

    (I understand the charge that she should not have asked people that were not fully informed instead of the organizers about the activities, but frankly, that was probably a natural and justifiable thing to do if you are frustrated and unable to get the answers from the published agenda. I also understand the charge that she should have gone directly to the organizers and I agree, however, I can certainly see how she might have assumed based on the official agenda, that they would not be anymore interested in providing oral details they were interested in providing written details, after all, that would defeat the purpose of the published agenda with limited information)

    Lets suppose that she reached her concerns because she had an incomplete understanding of what the agenda of the party was going to be, so when she petitioned the Lord, she got a bad feeling because the inspiration she got was predicated on an insufficient amount of information she was able to gather. Let’s suppose that the information she gathered was incomplete and perhaps even false.

    Lets also suppose the people in charge of the party were, like her, truly good people with pure hearts .

    Lets suppose that everything they had planned was totally acceptable to God and would inspire and uplift and bless the lives of those that attend the party.

    My questions is, is it really possible that both parties could have good intentions and pure hearts and still arrive at a frustrating conflict that would result in the major indigestion and hurt feelings that we have witnessed in the comments sections of these two last blogs ?

    I think the answer is YES..

    There is no boogeyman to be found in this scenario. There is no person with an evil heart or evil intent.

    I think it is possible that in such a scenario there is no sinister plot to be found.

    It is possible that the whole problem was caused by a lack of full disclosure.

    People get uneasy when they cannot have full disclosure.

    Case in point:

    When I heard that there would be some mystery speakers and a final speaker to wrap things up, I jumped to the conclusion that the mysterious final speaker was Denver Snuffer and that the whole purpose of the gathering would be to begin the foundation of establishing Zion there in Colorado and in taking in the offerings for the new temple LOL

    I was shocked in reading the comments of these two blogs to find out that Denver was not one of the invited speakers!!!!

    I share my assumption with you to illustrate what happens when full disclosure does not take place.

    People have active minds. People are always trying to read between the lines. LOL

    If the organizers would have simply been open and up front about who was speaking, what they would be speaking about, and what extracurricular activities would be available, etc., (with a full explanation about the dance and how it originated, etc.) there would have never been any controversy or hurt feelings.

    Everyone could have studied all of the issues out in their minds and received whatever answer the Lord had to give them based on having all of the full facts.

    I am not accusing the organizers of having evil intent in their decision to withhold the details.

    I am sure they had some very logical and good hearted reasons for wanting to withhold the details and I suspect the intent of their heart was pure in deciding to withhold the details.

    I would suggest that It is possible to have good intent while making ill advised decisions. I should know, I have personal experience in that kind of thing.

    It is a hard reality that full disclosure is required in these types of things and if full disclosure is not applied, there is a very good chance that problems like this will arise before the party AND there will be some disappointed and disillusioned people with unmet expectations AFTER the party as well.

    For this reason, it may be a real blessing to many people, including the organizers, in the long run, that the person with all of the questions created this shit-storm.

  18. Outcast,
    I certainly didn’t mean to imply Lynne had evil intent. As I said, there was no harm in having questions. What troubled me was that her questions contained assumptions that had no basis in reality, and once she voiced them, others ran with them as if her hypotheticals were factual.

    If I’m not mistaken, the description packet went to 25 pages, and in it the reason for not naming the speakers could be found: in order that this event be focused on Christ, and not on any cult of personality.

    Most of your points are valid, of course. My problem with the questions are that they are questions with built in conclusions, based on crazy assumptions, and they sowed discord. Another thing Bret made clear from the beginning was that not everyone is meant to come, so if God doesn’t put it on your heart to show, fine, you are not meant to participate. Stay home. Lynne wanted everyone to tell her why she should go to the trouble of showing up at an event she didn’t feel like going to. Well, the answer is simple. Don’t go.

    I don’t bother to go to things all the time based on my decision that it isn’t for me. Why make a case out of it? I make that choice all the time when it comes to what TV shows I invest my time in. It isn’t necessary to crap all over someone else’s favorite show just because it doesn’t suit my taste or inclination.

    It just seemed all so unnecessary for Lynne to make such a scene about something she decided was not to her taste. As Log put it in the other post, “Those who wanna go, go. Those who don’t wanna go, don’t go. Everyone mind their own business.”

    1. “My problem with the questions are that they are questions with built in conclusions”

      I can’t disagree with you on that Rock.

      I think you have a valid point and I can appreciate how frustrating it must be to the organizers and others that are excited to attend and participate.

  19. Sister Foudationlist

    My hypothetical:
    Hi this is God, I want to apologize that I didn’t just spell it out. I’m sorry that I ever spoke in parables for that matter. I will be returning on Sept. 28, 2015 at 6:00 am. But first I need to announce to the whole world- if you want to come to the Grand opening of Zion, you need to show up at the Grand Mesa on May 16 2015 at 6:00 pm to get your ticket. I apologize again that I ever left you to feel after me and require faith to find me. I hope this answers your questions.
    (please forgive my sarcasm, I couldn’t resist as it lends to great contemplation)

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