After more than 30 years of associating with this person, I realized she had gotten into the clutches of some evangelistic church that preaches against Mormons. She absolutely insisted that we have a different Bible and that it and the Book of Mormon are constantly undergoing changes. I countered with the fact that the King James Bible has not undergone changes for a long time, and that’s our Bible. I also told her the Book of Mormon is just another record of people who knew Christ is God. The record could hardly be expected to replace the Bible, given the short time frame it covers. But no! Without ever reading the Book of Mormon (or the entire Bible), she knew more about it than I did.

Next she countered with some nonsense about how Mormons repress women because men can become gods but women can’t. I told her God is no respecter of persons and that includes women. She agreed with this, but insisted Mormons were treating women like inferior beings. I assured her that this was not at all the case, that men are expected to be good fathers and women are not in the least held back from being in heaven. The scriptures say we are children of God, and this should leave no room for weird theories about women being left out of heaven’s complete blessings.

Then she wanted to say something derogatory about the three kingdoms of glory. I told her that it basically boiled down to the fact that those who love and obey Christ will be with him in heaven and those who don’t won’t.

Finally, she told me that my views were more in line with conservative Christian churches than with Mormonism. That’s the point, really. The Mormon church is about as conservative and as Christian as it gets … all the way back to Adam, as a matter of fact.

I know that other churches have a number of arguments that try to classify us as non-Christian. Maybe some Mormons contribute to this belief by being uninformed and uneducated. But I told my friend that if anything, Mormons should be considered MEGA-Christians who uphold the word of God as true and reject the doctrines of men.

After talking to me, she finally admitted I sounded like a Christian, but I think she still considers the Mormon church anything but. She’s probably not going to check with the Lord on the subject, either. I guess some people are just more reliant on the opinions of others than on personal revelation from the Holy Spirit.

And like you, I have both heard of and read many concerns expressed and written by intelligent women who have related continued instances of priesthood leaders who insensitively treat women with disrespect, either through stupidity or because of misogynistic tendencies. Hard to believe, I know, but there are still some out there.

I enjoyed viewing the video clip from Sam Harris. Isn’t he also the one who said that Mormons are just like Christians except that they had added some really stupid ideas? Oh yes, that clip is right below the other one. Sam is an interesting fellow and has struck a chord in a lot of people who deal with uncertainty in their faith. He has made many valid points about the foolishness of some of the beliefs of religion.

Frankly, I agree with him on many of his points, mainly because I feel that most religions are full of all kinds of ideas of man that are not inspired of God. I like the phrase, if I may us it here, “To me, it is a mass of confusion.” He has lumped us in with all the other religions without giving due consideration of our unique claims. That is unfortunate.

Your question about deciphering charlatans or dealing with conflicting communications is a very important one that is fundamental to any rational basis of belief in an individual or an organized religion. I have had this conversation with several visitors here on my blog, all wondering how I can be so certain that my faith is not misplaced.

As a TBM, I stick to the tried and true method of study it out, make a decision and then get down on your knees and pray about it. Was it you who referred to this process as the party line? It never ceases to amaze me how many people either don’t believe it or don’t understand how it works to confirm faith.

One recent visitor called it the illogical and irrational bubble of Mormonism. Whenever he would present some compelling argument and what he considered irrefutable evidence that our claims were false, I would simply say, “Well, it make look illogical and in some ways it does appear to be unreasonable. Nevertheless, I know it is so.”

He would say that I can’t know and that my claim of knowledge is not reasonable or objective. He said subjective experiences don’t count in the pursuit of truth. I countered that they have everything to do with my own faith because such experiences serve to confirm my faith. He didn’t get it. My metaphysical experiences confirm my theology.

I am no different from millions of others who stay in the church because they have felt that they have received answers to prayers that we consider revelation from God. Of course, one must study the doctrine before being able to ask for a witness if it is true. I have done so numerous times on a multitude of subjects. I have never been disappointed.

Of course, you and I are both aware of former bishops and other leaders in the church who have left and said that it is all brainwashing and deception. These are intelligent men, most of them, as one can ascertain by what they write and reason. Nevertheless, I am comfortable that my spiritual experiences in prayer prove the doctrine correct.

I don’t know if I am answering your question or if I even understood it correctly. You asked how metaphysical or numinous experiences confirm theology. They only serve to do so if we ask specific questions after studying it out, making a decision and asking in prayer for a confirming witness. It’s really not a difficult process and it just works.

The answer comes with a deep feeling of conviction, and a sense of certainty that cannot be denied. Sometimes when praying about a specific subject, ideas just flow into my mind that to me, are evidences that God is answering my prayer. Things become clear and light and a way to accomplish a task or explain a doctrine become clear and open.

I could go on and on as this is one of my favorite subjects to discuss. I have many online friends who are born and raised in the church and yet have never experienced this process of receiving revelation. To me, it is amazing that something so fundamental and so basic to our faith can be so difficult, but I know for some people, it is next to impossible.

I have gained a greater appreciation for those who struggle with uncertainty and doubt. Until I started blogging, I did not realize how far-reaching this problem really is. I wish I had an easy answer for those how have doubts and uncertainties but I don’t. I admire those like John Dehlin who continue activity in the church in spite of their disbeliefs.

I’ll stop now. Thanks for asking the question. It is the core of my faith to know that I can receive answers to prayer and that I have received them many times over the years. This answers are spiritual manifestations of truth and give me a solid foundation to my life and provide hope to go forward each day in this world that just does not get it.

Thanks again for the dialog.

And in reference to metaphysical experiences: I suggest that they have everything to do with theology. We believe that the purpose of numinous experiences is precisely to receive direct communication from a member of the Godhead, bearing witness of the truth and of the other members of that same Godhead. What better method to understand God then to be taught directly by his spirit?

Regarding metaphysics. I do not doubt that you have experienced what you claim to have experienced. I have had transcendent and numinous experiences as well, however it’s a leap to go from that to theology.

Thanks for the clarification on how you view the example of the scripture being rearranged or added in John. I’m not sure of what your position on the Bible is but I gather it leans towards it not being a perfectly accurate book. I think that is exactly what the LDS Church believes as well. We accept the Bible as far as it is translated correctly.

Your point about metaphysics is an area in which I have recently had an extended dialog with a Christian evangelist here on my blog. His point was that we LDS all too often retreat into the “bubble of our testimonies” when faced with difficult questions that we can not reasonably answer. He really got me thinking about the importance of finding reasonable answers.

In particular, we discussed what he considered the non-objectivity of the spiritual experience. I contended that my answers to prayer were real to me and he responded that such claims were not objectively repeatable. Is that what you are referring to when you mention human psychology or are you suggesting that such experiences are hallucinations or self-induced hypnosis?

I’m sincerely interested in your opinions and appreciate your previous responses. I am fascinated by the discovery that there are many people out there who at one time believed they had a spiritual experience and now feel that additional evidence has invalidated that knowledge.

With respect to metaphysics. I did once believe the party line, but I am less inclined to accept them as genuine today given what we know about the human psychology.

I am glad to learn that you do not consider your faith to be shaken. I am intrigued by your use of an interesting phrase: “subordinate my beliefs to the evidence.” I like to think that I have reviewed most of the contrary evidence to be found out there today and yet I still choose to maintain my belief in the work of Joseph Smith.

You wrote that you were once as I am. By this I assume you mean that you have received personal revelation from the Holy Ghost testifying to the truths of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ. Is this something that you feel is no longer defensible in light of evidence that contradicts your previous heartfelt testimony?

I think I understand the example you have chosen to support your choice but I am curious to know: are you saying that you have thrown out your acceptance of the validity of this particular event, your belief in the book of John or of the New Testament, of the Bible or of all scriptures accepted by the church?

Again, I appreciate your visits to my blog and welcome an open dialog.