Comments on: Changes to the Book of Mormon http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/changes-to-the-book-of-mormon/ In which news, politics and religion are mixed - a potentially volatile combination Fri, 27 Jan 2012 05:59:50 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.1 By: General Authority training – advanced subjects | Latter-day Commentary http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/changes-to-the-book-of-mormon/comment-page-1/#comment-1484 General Authority training – advanced subjects | Latter-day Commentary Sun, 07 Jun 2009 04:20:28 +0000 http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/?p=111#comment-1484 [...] DNA evidence [...] DNA evidence

]]> By: Tim Malone http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/changes-to-the-book-of-mormon/comment-page-1/#comment-985 Tim Malone Sun, 07 Dec 2008 06:42:00 +0000 http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/?p=111#comment-985 Thank you Jim, for the opportunity to review scriptures with you and spend a few delightful moments refreshing myself with some of the doctrines that are unique to the LDS faith. I very much appreciate the points you have made and offer the following commentary on those points:<br/><br/>You are correct that Celestial marriage, tithing, baptism for the dead and temple work are not identified in the revealed portion of the Book of Mormon that we have. Perhaps they are in the sealed portion. No matter. That’s the beauty of our revealed religion. So much of the doctrines and practices unique to Latter-day Saints came through revelations to the prophet Joseph Smith.<br/><br/>Jim, I think you’ve confused baptism for the dead with child baptism. A careful reading of the eighth chapter of Moroni reveals that it is completely about the mockery of baptizing little children before they reach the age of accountability because they cannot sin until then. There is nothing in that chapter about baptism of the dead that I could find. The same applies to Alma.<br/><br/>Alma 34:31-35 is about repentance and not procrastinating our efforts to prepare to meet God. This life is the time for men to prepare to meet God. One of the labors we are to perform in this life is to repent. Alma is warning the people to not put off that work, because it is work indeed. It is easier to train our spirits in mortality then it is in the spirit world before we are resurrected.<br/><br/>You cite three scriptures that demonstrate where we you say that we part ways with Christian churches. I’m not seeing any conflict in these scriptures unless Christians don’t believe that Jesus was the Son of God. He taught that Himself over and over in his ministry upon the earth.<br/><br/>1 Ne 11:18 – The mother of the Son of God, referring to Mary<br/>1 Ne 11:32 – The Lamb of God slain for the sins of the world<br/>1 Ne 13:40 – The Lamb of God is the son of the Eternal Father<br/><br/>You also cite several scriptures where Jesus is identified as the Father. It might be helpful if you were to read my essay on <a HREF="http://latterdaycommentary.blogspot.com/2008/05/god-father-and-god-son.html" REL="nofollow">God the Father and God the Son</a>, which addresses this doctrine.<br/><br/>Mosiah 7:27 – Christ is the creator of all things, thus the Father of all things created<br/>Ether 3:14 – Jesus is the Father of those who believe in his name and are redeemed<br/><br/>Mosiah 15:1-4 – The Son of God is subject to the will of the Father. Every seminary student in high school has this discussion and understanding of how Christ was conceived by the Father. I would be happy to elaborate on this passage in a separate essay if you are interested.<br/><br/>Alma 11:26-29 – Alma answers Zeezrom’s questions about God. There is one God to whom we pray, God the Father, as Alma teaches clearly. The Son of God is identified in later verses.<br/><br/>2 Ne 19:6 – This is the same verse as Isaiah 9:6 – For unto us a child is born. I’m not sure why you are pointing out that this verse is problematic. Do you not accept the Old Testament?<br/><br/>Alma 11:27-29, 44 – We pray to one God. We are judged by Jesus Christ the Son of God.<br/>2 Ne 31:21 – The Father, Son and Holy Ghost are one God in purpose and always will be.<br/>Mormon 7:7 – Repeats the doctrine of the unity of the Godhead in purpose as in 2 Ne 31:21<br/>3 Ne 11:27 – We are baptized in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost<br/><br/>D&C 121:32 – The Council of the Eternal God of all other gods before this world was<br/>D&C 132:18-20, 37 – Then shall they be gods. Yep, we believe that we can become gods.<br/><br/>You point out an assumed contradiction between Alma 34:36 and D&C 130:3. Alma 34:36 is referring to the spirit of the Lord. It would be ridiculous to suppose that God Himself dwells in our hearts. D&C 130:3 makes it very clear that such a belief is an old sectarian notion.<br/><br/>Understanding the doctrines of the restored gospel is not a matter of luck, but of prayerful study and determined effort to conform to God’s will as revealed through his modern prophets. Thank you Jim, for the opportunity to review scriptures with you and spend a few delightful moments refreshing myself with some of the doctrines that are unique to the LDS faith. I very much appreciate the points you have made and offer the following commentary on those points:

You are correct that Celestial marriage, tithing, baptism for the dead and temple work are not identified in the revealed portion of the Book of Mormon that we have. Perhaps they are in the sealed portion. No matter. That’s the beauty of our revealed religion. So much of the doctrines and practices unique to Latter-day Saints came through revelations to the prophet Joseph Smith.

Jim, I think you’ve confused baptism for the dead with child baptism. A careful reading of the eighth chapter of Moroni reveals that it is completely about the mockery of baptizing little children before they reach the age of accountability because they cannot sin until then. There is nothing in that chapter about baptism of the dead that I could find. The same applies to Alma.

Alma 34:31-35 is about repentance and not procrastinating our efforts to prepare to meet God. This life is the time for men to prepare to meet God. One of the labors we are to perform in this life is to repent. Alma is warning the people to not put off that work, because it is work indeed. It is easier to train our spirits in mortality then it is in the spirit world before we are resurrected.

You cite three scriptures that demonstrate where we you say that we part ways with Christian churches. I’m not seeing any conflict in these scriptures unless Christians don’t believe that Jesus was the Son of God. He taught that Himself over and over in his ministry upon the earth.

1 Ne 11:18 – The mother of the Son of God, referring to Mary
1 Ne 11:32 – The Lamb of God slain for the sins of the world
1 Ne 13:40 – The Lamb of God is the son of the Eternal Father

You also cite several scriptures where Jesus is identified as the Father. It might be helpful if you were to read my essay on God the Father and God the Son, which addresses this doctrine.

Mosiah 7:27 – Christ is the creator of all things, thus the Father of all things created
Ether 3:14 – Jesus is the Father of those who believe in his name and are redeemed

Mosiah 15:1-4 – The Son of God is subject to the will of the Father. Every seminary student in high school has this discussion and understanding of how Christ was conceived by the Father. I would be happy to elaborate on this passage in a separate essay if you are interested.

Alma 11:26-29 – Alma answers Zeezrom’s questions about God. There is one God to whom we pray, God the Father, as Alma teaches clearly. The Son of God is identified in later verses.

2 Ne 19:6 – This is the same verse as Isaiah 9:6 – For unto us a child is born. I’m not sure why you are pointing out that this verse is problematic. Do you not accept the Old Testament?

Alma 11:27-29, 44 – We pray to one God. We are judged by Jesus Christ the Son of God.
2 Ne 31:21 – The Father, Son and Holy Ghost are one God in purpose and always will be.
Mormon 7:7 – Repeats the doctrine of the unity of the Godhead in purpose as in 2 Ne 31:21
3 Ne 11:27 – We are baptized in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Ghost

D&C 121:32 – The Council of the Eternal God of all other gods before this world was
D&C 132:18-20, 37 – Then shall they be gods. Yep, we believe that we can become gods.

You point out an assumed contradiction between Alma 34:36 and D&C 130:3. Alma 34:36 is referring to the spirit of the Lord. It would be ridiculous to suppose that God Himself dwells in our hearts. D&C 130:3 makes it very clear that such a belief is an old sectarian notion.

Understanding the doctrines of the restored gospel is not a matter of luck, but of prayerful study and determined effort to conform to God’s will as revealed through his modern prophets.

]]> By: Jim http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/changes-to-the-book-of-mormon/comment-page-1/#comment-977 Jim Sat, 06 Dec 2008 06:45:00 +0000 http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/?p=111#comment-977 While there are many substantive changes to the book, it is a moot point as the LDS doctrine and practices are unaffected by the book. The primary doctrines of the church are not reflected in the book to any degree; e.g., celestial marriage, tithing, baptism for the dead, temple work, etc. In fact, the book is definitely against baptism for the dead (see Alma 34:31-35 and expecially Mor 8:22-23), calling it mockery before God.<br/><br/>The substantive changes referred to are regarding "who is God," which is where the LDS and Christian churches part ways. For example, 1 Nephi 11:18, 11:32, 13:40, and where Jesus is the Father (Mosiah 7:27, Ether 3:14, Mosiah 15:1-4, Alma 11:26-29, 2 Nephi 19:6.<br/><br/>In fact, the modern LDS church has redefined or countered the written word of the BM in many places, replacing it with apparently a change in God's revelation to man. Here's a couple, but there are at least 20:<br/><br/>One God (Alma 11:27-29, 44, II Nephi 31:21, Mormon 7:7 and III Nephi 11:27 <br/>Many Gods (D&C 121:32, 132:18-20, 37)<br/><br/>God dwells in the heart (Alma 34:36) <br/>God doesn't dwell in the heart (D&C 130:3)<br/><br/>Good luck. While there are many substantive changes to the book, it is a moot point as the LDS doctrine and practices are unaffected by the book. The primary doctrines of the church are not reflected in the book to any degree; e.g., celestial marriage, tithing, baptism for the dead, temple work, etc. In fact, the book is definitely against baptism for the dead (see Alma 34:31-35 and expecially Mor 8:22-23), calling it mockery before God.

The substantive changes referred to are regarding "who is God," which is where the LDS and Christian churches part ways. For example, 1 Nephi 11:18, 11:32, 13:40, and where Jesus is the Father (Mosiah 7:27, Ether 3:14, Mosiah 15:1-4, Alma 11:26-29, 2 Nephi 19:6.

In fact, the modern LDS church has redefined or countered the written word of the BM in many places, replacing it with apparently a change in God's revelation to man. Here's a couple, but there are at least 20:

One God (Alma 11:27-29, 44, II Nephi 31:21, Mormon 7:7 and III Nephi 11:27
Many Gods (D&C 121:32, 132:18-20, 37)

God dwells in the heart (Alma 34:36)
God doesn't dwell in the heart (D&C 130:3)

Good luck.

]]> By: Clean Cut http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/changes-to-the-book-of-mormon/comment-page-1/#comment-125 Clean Cut Fri, 02 May 2008 21:23:00 +0000 http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/?p=111#comment-125 I loved your final testimony of the Book of Mormon. I get so dang excited every time I read it because of all the implications of the book--it's powerful, it's persuasive (persuading me to have greater faith in Christ that is) , it's full of enriching doctrine, wisdom, hope, and truth, and it brings me closer to Christ. I feel this EVERY time I read it. I've felt the Spirit so many times through reading the Book of Mormon that I feel my faith is now unshakable in it--and then of course that means that Joseph really was called of God and that this work is true. No matter what other things might come my way, I will always remember my witness of the Book of Mormon and the feelings I get when I read it, quote from it, teach from it, and share it. I loved your final testimony of the Book of Mormon. I get so dang excited every time I read it because of all the implications of the book–it’s powerful, it’s persuasive (persuading me to have greater faith in Christ that is) , it’s full of enriching doctrine, wisdom, hope, and truth, and it brings me closer to Christ. I feel this EVERY time I read it. I’ve felt the Spirit so many times through reading the Book of Mormon that I feel my faith is now unshakable in it–and then of course that means that Joseph really was called of God and that this work is true. No matter what other things might come my way, I will always remember my witness of the Book of Mormon and the feelings I get when I read it, quote from it, teach from it, and share it.

]]> By: S.Faux http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/changes-to-the-book-of-mormon/comment-page-1/#comment-124 S.Faux Fri, 02 May 2008 21:12:00 +0000 http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/?p=111#comment-124 As usual, you get right to the heart of the issue. As usual, you get right to the heart of the issue.

]]> By: lds9999 http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/changes-to-the-book-of-mormon/comment-page-1/#comment-123 lds9999 Fri, 02 May 2008 20:14:00 +0000 http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/?p=111#comment-123 I enjoyed your post. I remember when I was in high school and one of my teachers challenged me about the changes in the Book of Mormon in front of the entire class. At that time, I didn't know about the changes, so it gave me the opportunity to study up on it and resolve it in my own mind. Like you, the issue has never bothered me.<br/><br/>On the DNA issue, I second the recommendation about Jeff Lindsay's article. It is a masterpiece. I enjoyed your post. I remember when I was in high school and one of my teachers challenged me about the changes in the Book of Mormon in front of the entire class. At that time, I didn’t know about the changes, so it gave me the opportunity to study up on it and resolve it in my own mind. Like you, the issue has never bothered me.

On the DNA issue, I second the recommendation about Jeff Lindsay’s article. It is a masterpiece.

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