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	<title>Latter-day Commentary&#187; True Church</title>
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	<description>In which news, politics and religion are mixed - a potentially volatile combination</description>
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		<title>Divine manifestations must have a purpose</title>
		<link>http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/divine-manifestations-must-have-a-purpose/</link>
		<comments>http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/divine-manifestations-must-have-a-purpose/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 13 Jul 2009 01:41:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Tim Malone</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Angel Moroni]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Angelic visatations]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Angels]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Answers to prayer]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Authority]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bearing witness]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Book of Mormon]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Burning of the bosom]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Divine Manifestations]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Faithfulness]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Fast Sunday]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[First Vision]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Gifts of the Spirit]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[God]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Heavenly Father]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Holy Ghost]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Inspiration]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Jesus Christ]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Keys of the Kingdom]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[LDS Church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Los Angeles Temple]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mormon Church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mormon History]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mormon Origins]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mormon temples]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mormonism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[One true church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Only true church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Personal Revelation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Revelation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Sacrament meeting]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Spirit of the Lord]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Temple work]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Testimony]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[True Church]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/?p=428</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[One of the delightful parts of a stake temple night is the opportunity to be taught by a member of the temple presidency.  I once asked my stake president about divine manifastations in the temple. <a href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/divine-manifestations-must-have-a-purpose/">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img class="alignleft size-thumbnail wp-image-436" title="elijahkey" src="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/elijahkey-150x150.jpg" alt="elijahkey" width="150" height="150" />One of the delightful parts of a <a title="Stake" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Stake">stake</a> <a title="Mormon Temples" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Mormon_Temples">temple</a> night is the opportunity to be taught by a member of the <a title="Temple President" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Temple_President">temple presidency</a>.  On one particular occasion many years ago, the Temple President felt inspired to relate a few stories that patrons had shared with him about <a title="Manifestations" href="http://scriptures.lds.org/tg/m/34">spiritual manifestations</a> that they had received while serving in the <a title="Los Angeles" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Los_Angeles_California_Temple">LA temple</a>.  It was an uplifting and edifying session.</p>
<p>I was very impressed with what the Temple President spoke about that evening.  He related some very sacred experiences of visits from the other side of <a title="Veil" href="http://scriptures.lds.org/gs/v/2">the veil</a> from deceased family members for whom the <a title="Temple Ordinances" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Temple_Ordinances">work</a> was being done.  He gave specific examples of what people saw, heard or felt that was evidence to them of the validity of this work and that it is accepted by their relatives.</p>
<p><strong>A conversation with my Stake President</strong></p>
<p>While preparing to leave the temple that evening, I conversed with my <a title="Stake President" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Stake_President">Stake President</a> about the things the Temple President had taught us in our chapel session.  I had served with this Stake President for several years on the <a title="High Council" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/High_Council">High Council</a> and felt comfortable sharing heartfelt concerns.  I knew that he would carefully consider what I had to say before answering with thoughtfulness.</p>
<p>“President”, I said, “I’ve been coming to this temple <a title="My experience with the temple" href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/my-experience-with-the-temple/">since I was twelve years old</a>.  In fact, I was six years old when I was sealed here to my parents.  I have <a title="Blessings of the Temple" href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/the-blessings-of-the-lds-temple/">many sacred memories</a> of this place.  I was <a title="Temple endowment" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Temple_endowment">endowed</a> here when I was nineteen and married to my sweetheart not too many years after completing <a title="Teach and testify" href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/the-teaching-and-testifying-missionary/">my mission</a>.  I have participated in several thousand <a title="Ordinances" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Ordinances">ordinances</a> here in this temple.</p>
<p><strong>Sacred temple manifestations</strong></p>
<p>“So why is it that I have never experienced any of these kinds of sacred manifestations that the temple president described?”  As I expected, he thought for a few minutes while we continued to change back into our street clothes after the evening’s temple work was completed.  After a moment, he paused, put his hand on my shoulder and then responded very slowly and carefully.</p>
<p>“Brother Malone, some people do not require manifestations to be faithful.  The Lord knows their hearts and knows what they need.  You apparently do not need any additional evidence that the work being performed in these temples is valid and acceptable to both the Lord and to those for whom it is performed.  Your years of faithfulness are proof that you know the work is true.”</p>
<p><strong>The Lord bears witness</strong></p>
<p>He was right, of course.  I didn’t need a manifestation to know that the work being done in the <a title="Temples" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Temples">temples</a> is of eternal significance and validity.  I had known that since I was a child and had never doubted it.  I thought about his response and realized that there was never an occasion when I attended the temple that I didn’t feel the warmth and comfort of <a title="Holy Ghost" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Holy_Ghost">the spirit of the Lord.</a></p>
<p>It was just another piece of evidence to me that the Spirit of the Lord is always present when <a title="Ordinances" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Ordinances">priesthood ordinances</a> are performed, especially in <a title="House of the Lord" href="http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?index=20&amp;locale=0&amp;sourceId=b1747c2fc20b8010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&amp;vgnextoid=bbd508f54922d010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD">the House of the Lord</a>.  I didn’t need any additional evidence because I had the <a title="Gift of the Holy Ghost" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Gift_of_the_Holy_Ghost">constant companionship</a> of the Lord each time I sat in an endowment session or knelt across the <a title="Inside a Mormon Temple" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Inside_Mormon_Temples">altar in a sealing</a> session.  Yes, I knew the work was true.</p>
<p><strong>To uplift and edify</strong></p>
<p>I have the same kind of experience each week when I attend <a title="Sacrament meeting" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Sacrament_Meeting">Sacrament meeting</a>, and especially in a <a title="Testimony meeting" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Fast_and_Testimony_Meeting">testimony meeting</a>.  There is just something special about attending church each week and partaking of the <a title="Sacrament" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Sacrament">Sacrament</a>.  I just feel different by the end of the meeting.  I feel happy and feel that my burdens have been lifted.  It never fails.  I feel this strengthening each week after church.</p>
<p>This uplifting feeling is always the same whether I am conducting the meeting as a member of the <a title="Bishopric" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Bishopric">Bishopric</a>, or just sitting in the congregation as a regular member of the ward.  I love to hear members of my ward teach the gospel from the pulpit and share their feelings about the truth of what they have learned and have taught.  Sacrament meeting is always uplifting and edifying.</p>
<p><strong>Testimony meetings</strong></p>
<p>Last Sunday I sat in our monthly ward testimony meeting and thought about the different kinds of <a title="Testimony" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Testimony">testimonies</a> I was hearing.  The Bishop was short and succinct.  He bore witness of the <a title="Elder Oaks on Testimony" href="http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&amp;locale=0&amp;sourceId=8502558fcc599110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&amp;vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD">five basic points</a> of an LDS testimony and then sat down, inviting others to share their testimonies.  I got up and rambled a little bit about testimonies and then bore witness of the same five points.</p>
<p>As we progressed through the meeting, I noted that some members talked about experiences that demonstrated to them that the Lord knew them personally and that he hears and answers their <a title="Prayer" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Prayer">prayers</a>.  Others spoke about the <a title="Trials" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Trials">trials</a> through which they were passing and then concluded with assertions that they knew the Lord loved them would not leave them comfortless in their trials.</p>
<p><strong>When we say “I know”</strong></p>
<p>I listened very closely to each testimony waiting for the phrases “I know” and “I believe.”  I think I heard “I believe” maybe once or twice.  “I know” was used by the majority of those who shared their testimonies.  I know these people and know that when they say that they know that the church is true, and that the <a title="Book of Mormon" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Book_of_Mormon">Book of Mormon</a> is the word of God, they mean it sincerely.</p>
<p>I was listening closely because of <a title="There is no middle ground" href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/there-is-no-middle-ground/">recent conversation</a> with readers of my blog about testimonies and what it means to say <a title="Only true and living church" href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/the-only-true-and-living-church/">the church is true</a>.  I now try to qualify what I mean when I say that by adding some additional phrases like, “because <a title="Angels" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Angels">angels</a> conferred <a title="Keys of the Priesthood" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Keys_of_the_Priesthood">priesthood keys</a> upon the Prophet <a title="Joseph Smith" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Joseph_Smith">Joseph Smith</a>,” and “because angels <a title="Ordination to the Priesthood" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Ordination_to_the_Priesthood">ordained</a> Joseph Smith and gave him priesthood authority.”</p>
<p><strong>Authority and the true church</strong></p>
<p>You see, this <a title="Authority" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Authority">authority</a> thing is very important to me.  I’ve had a lot of dialogs with visitors to Latter-day Commentary about this very important subject.  I’ve tried to share with them that the idea of priesthood authority is one of the most important aspects of a church that claims to be the true church of Jesus Christ.  Ordinances of <a title="Salvation" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Salvation">salvation</a> require God’s authority to perform them.</p>
<p>That’s all we really mean when we say that we are the true church.  We are simply saying that angels came from the <a title="Spirit world" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Spirit_World">spirit world</a> and gave Joseph Smith divine permission to do what he did in establishing the Church of Jesus Christ upon the earth again in these latter days.  Of course, the idea that angels have visited man in our day is a very difficult thing for some people to accept.</p>
<p><strong>Angels, visions and revelation</strong></p>
<p>I have never seen an angel.  I have had no divine <a title="Visions" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Visions">vision</a> with my natural eyes.  I have never heard an audible voice from the spirit world. Yet I have never questioned that <a title="First Vision" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/First_Vision">Joseph Smith saw God</a>, was visited by <a title="Moroni" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Moroni">angels</a>, <a title="Doctrine and Covenants" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Doctrine_and_Covenants">received revelations</a> and brought forth the Book of Mormon by the <a title="D&amp;C 1:29" href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/1/29#29">gift and power of God</a>.  Some of my readers find it fantastic that I can believe Joseph was a <a title="Mormon prophet" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Mormon_prophet">prophet</a>.</p>
<p>How is this possible?  On what basis do I stand and say “I know that God lives, that Jesus is the Christ, that the Book of Mormon is the word of God, that Joseph was a prophet and that this is the true church of Jesus Christ with a prophet at the head today?”  If I have not seen God or Jesus, and was not there when Joseph brought forth the Book or Mormon, <a title="What do Mormon's believe" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/What_do_Mormons_believe">how am I a witness</a>?</p>
<p><strong>Divine manifestations must have a purpose</strong></p>
<p>In all my years in this church, I don’t think I have ever met anyone who said to me, “Yes, I saw God.  He visited me and told me…”  I have never had someone say to me, “I was praying very earnestly one night and the Lord appeared to me to tell me that he loved me and that my sins were forgiven.”  I have also never heard anyone relate to me that they were visited by an angel.</p>
<p>Now perhaps you know people who have received such manifestations or maybe you have been the recipient of angelic visitations.  I think that’s wonderful.  I assume the visits had a purpose.  I guess I’ve never felt the need for divine manifestations beyond what I <a title="While at Rick's College" href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/a-different-kind-of-religious-education/">have already received</a> when I was young as I prayed to know that the Book of Mormon was indeed the word of God.</p>
<p><strong>We live far beneath our privileges</strong></p>
<p>When I was seventeen I was extremely motivated to obtain a manifestation from God about my standing before him and to know if the Book of Mormon was what Joseph said it was.  I obtained both of those witnesses and <a title="Answered prayers before Mission" href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/a-call-for-more-personal-revelation/">a few more</a> that the Lord felt were needed in order to help me fulfill my purpose in life.  I’ve been coasting on those manifestations for the past thirty-five years.</p>
<p>I’m wondering if I’ve been coasting too long.  Our former stake president, now serving as a mission president, often repeated this from <a title="Brigham Young" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Brigham_Young">Brigham Young</a>.  He said, “[We] may have the Spirit of the Lord to . . . direct [us]. . . . I am satisfied, however, that, in this respect, <a title="From Discourses of Brigham Young" href="http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&amp;locale=0&amp;sourceId=71719c84f5d6b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&amp;vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD">we live far beneath our privileges</a>.&#8221;  Is there more the Lord wants us to have besides what he has already given us?</p>
<p><strong>Summary and conclusion</strong></p>
<p>The Lord reveals himself to man when he has a purpose or a mission for them to perform.  He sends angels to instruct man and teach him about the work that he wants performed.  He sends his spirit to assure men and women that the work in which they are engaged is divine.  He gives <a title="Gifts of he spirit" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Gifts_of_the_Spirit">gifts of the spirit</a> to help us do his work.  For Joseph, one needed gift was the <a title="Gift of translation" href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/5/4,30#4">power to translate</a>.</p>
<p>When I needed to know that the church and the Book of Mormon were of divine origin, the Lord sent his spirit and confirmed these things in my heart and mind.  Over the years, that same spirit has encouraged and motivated me to ever increasing faithfulness and obedience.  Is the Lord willing to provide additional manifestations, and if so, what is the purpose they would serve?</p>
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		<title>Shades of Grey and relative truth</title>
		<link>http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/shades_of_grey/</link>
		<comments>http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/shades_of_grey/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 02:32:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Tim Malone</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[American Religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Anti-Mormons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[boldness]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Book of Mormon]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Cognitive dissonance]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Contention]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Controversy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Costa Rica mission]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Criticism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[DAMU]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Disaffected Mormons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Dissent]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Doctrine]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Doubt]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Ex-Mormons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[First Vision]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Former Mormons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[God]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Gospel knowledge]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Heavenly Father]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Holy Ghost]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Intellectuals]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Joseph C. Muren]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Knowledge]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[LDS Church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Middle ground]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Missionary stories]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Modern Revelation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mormon culture]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mormon Origins]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mormonism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mormons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[New Order Mormons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[One true church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Only true church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Personal Revelation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Post-Mormons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Relative truth]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Revelation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Shades of Grey]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Sharing the Gospel]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Spirit of the Lord]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Spiritual Experiences]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Spiritual Knowledge]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Testifying]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Testimony]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[True Church]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/?p=406</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In 1978, civil war broke out in Nicaragua, just after I left the country. My Mission President went from Costa Rica to Managua to help the missionaries get out of the country.  As he was literally leaving the chapel where he &#8230; <a href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/shades_of_grey/">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a title="President Muren Family" href="http://www.3tcm.net/PresMurenFamily.jpg"><img class="alignleft size-thumbnail wp-image-411" title="presmurenfamily" src="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/presmurenfamily-150x150.jpg" alt="presmurenfamily" width="150" height="150" /></a>In 1978, civil war broke out in <a title="Nicaragua" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicaragua">Nicaragua</a>, just after I left the country. My <a title="Mission President" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Mission_President">Mission President</a> went from Costa Rica to Managua to help the missionaries get out of the country.  As he was literally leaving the <a title="Chapel" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Chapel">chapel</a> where he had told the missionaries to gather, the <a title="Sandinistas" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandinista">Sandinistas</a> came running in from the other door and stopped them.</p>
<p>Demanding to know what side of the conflict they were on, <a title="Joseph C. Muren" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_C._Muren">President Muren</a> responded with the phrase, &#8220;tonos de gris,&#8221; which means shades of grey.  He did not stop but kept going right out the door and was able to get that group of Elders out of the country.  Gratefully, all the <a title="Missionaries" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Missionaries">missionaries</a> eventually made it safely out.</p>
<p><strong>Social or Cultural Mormons</strong></p>
<p>Can a person be a member of the <a title="Mormon" href="http://www.mormon.org">LDS faith</a> and not believe some of the <a title="Doctrine" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Doctrine">doctrine</a> or accept the <a title="Church History" href="http://www.lds.org/churchhistory/history">official story</a> of the <a title="Mormon History" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Mormon_history">history</a>?  Absolutely!  We call them social or <a title="Cultural Mormons" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Mormon">cultural Mormons</a> and there are countless numbers of them within the church.  Many of these kinds of members come from multi-generation <a title="Mormon Pioneers" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Mormon_Pioneers">pioneer</a> LDS families.</p>
<p>If you survey an average <a title="Mormon meetings" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Mormon_meetings">congregation</a> in the LDS faith, you will find that there are a surprising number who just don’t care about some of the doctrine and care even less about the history.  They are there because it is their family tradition and they derive satisfaction from the social interaction among good people that they know.</p>
<p><strong>Looking for the middle ground</strong></p>
<p>They feel uncomfortable when they hear <a title="Loyalty" href="http://lds.org/conference/talk/display/0,5232,23-1-353-21,00.html">statements</a> from their leaders that the <a title="LDS Church" href="http://www.lds.org">LDS church</a> is either the <a title="Kingdom of God" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Kingdom_of_God">kingdom of God</a> or it is nothing.  When someone says that <a title="Joseph Smith" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Joseph_Smith">Joseph Smith</a> was either God’s <a title="Mormon Prophet" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Prophet">prophet</a> or he was a great fraud, they feel unfairly pressured to have to put their view of the man in such black and white terms.</p>
<p>Isn’t there some <a title="There is no middle ground" href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/there-is-no-middle-ground/">middle ground</a> where good people can participate in the Mormon faith without having to take sides about Joseph Smith, the <a title="Book of Mormon" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Book_of_Mormon">Book of Mormon</a>, the idea of <a title="Angels" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Angels">angels</a> visiting Joseph and the concept of <a title="Priesthood Keys" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Keys_of_the_Priesthood">priesthood keys</a> and <a title="Authority" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Authority">authority</a>?  There is so much good in the church.  Why does it have to be classified as <a title="True and Living Church" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/True_and_Living_Church">true</a>?</p>
<p><strong>The American Mormon culture</strong></p>
<p>There are many members of the LDS church who do not fit the stereotypical image of <a title="US Conservatism" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatism_in_the_United_States">conservative</a>, <a title="Orthodoxy" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthodoxy">orthodox</a>, <a title="Republican" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Party_(United_States)">Republican</a>, <a title="White Collar" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White-collar_worker">white-collar</a>, <a title="All American" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-American_(disambiguation)">all-American</a> family.  The church membership is actually quite diverse, especially as one travels outside the confines of the <a title="Intermountain West" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermountain_West">Intermountain West</a> where the church flourished and is the strongest.</p>
<p>Culturally, as a church and a people, we seem to have become stagnated in the mindset of the <a title="19th Century" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/19th_Century">19th century</a> view of <a title="Mormonism" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormonism">Mormonism</a> that still conflicts with the outside world.  The church is growing beyond the <a title="Mormon corridor" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormon_Corridor">Mormon corridor</a> but is experiencing a sort of consolidation in the traditional strongholds of the faith – the center of <a title="Zion" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Zion">Zion</a>.</p>
<p><strong>The one true church</strong></p>
<p>Many good people who recognize this cultural myopia and <a title="Parochialism" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parochialism">parochialism</a> that exists within the LDS faith have expanded their views and horizons beyond the <a title="Mores" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mores">mores</a> and restraints of the traditional, orthodox Mormon <a title="Worldview" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worldview">worldview</a>.  There are so many good people out there that are doing great things to serve their local communities.</p>
<p>Because these <a title="Progressive Christianity" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Christianity">progressive</a> thinking people have expanded their views they have come in contact with different ways of thinking about the <a title="Religious Experience" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_experience">religious experience</a> and about their own Mormon upbringing.  The idea of belonging to <a title="One true church" href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/the-only-true-and-living-church/">the one true church</a> has come to be offensive and difficult, if not impossible to defend in their minds.</p>
<p><strong>God’s chosen people</strong></p>
<p>They see and are embarrassed by what appears to be a contest of <a title="Right and wrong" href="http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&amp;locale=0&amp;sourceId=4bd89209df38b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&amp;vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD">right and wrong</a> between our zeal as <a title="Every member a missionary" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Every_Member_a_Missionary">a missionary church</a> and the good people who are not already a part of the elect kingdom of God.  Whereas previously they were uncomfortable with a perceived <a title="Exclusivism" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusivism">exclusivist</a> approach, they now are adamant that we are wrong.</p>
<p>We are <a title="Judgemental" href="http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&amp;locale=0&amp;sourceId=2d0584d4a0a0c010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&amp;vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD">judgmental</a>, they cry.  Why can’t we accept everybody else just the way they are?  Why are we trying to <a title="Convert" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Convert">convert</a> people when they are already happy and doing much good in their own faith?  The idea of rules for membership becomes chafing.  Why does the church have such high <a title="Standards of strength" href="http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&amp;locale=0&amp;sourceId=347e7264d3b9c110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&amp;vgnextoid=024644f8f206c010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD">standards</a> that drive people crazy?</p>
<p><strong>Pointing out the flaws and faults</strong></p>
<p>A large percentage of the LDS membership either does not know or does not care about some of the <a title="Troubling issues" href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/general-authority-training-advanced-subjects/">troubling issues</a> of our early history and growth as a church.  It is frustrating to progressive thinkers that so many within the faith are not as well versed as they are on these issues and the supposed quandaries that they present.</p>
<p>So they become more vocal and <a title="Strident" href="http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/strident?rdfrom=Strident">strident</a> in pointing out the flaws and faults of the church and its leaders, both historical and current.  Their frustration increases when their audience either shrugs its collective shoulders or ignores their efforts to educate them on the problems that they see in the church.  How can they not care?</p>
<p><strong>Many faithful members do know</strong></p>
<p>While there are many who don’t know and don’t care, there are just as many who are very knowledgeable in the issues and problems that are troublesome to our <a title="Liberalism" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism">liberal minded</a> members.  It’s just that we have found answers within our own hearts and minds many years ago that satisfy the potential <a title="Cognitive dissonance" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance">cognitive dissonance</a>.</p>
<p>We quietly go about our lives, secure and confident in the knowledge that we have found answers for the most important elements of our faith.  We invite others to taste of the peace that comes from knowing that there are answers and that there are many solid and bedrock truths upon which we can build our lives and our faith.</p>
<p><strong>Raise a warning voice</strong></p>
<p>For some reason, when we try to share our <a title="Certainty" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Certainty">certainty</a> about the truths we have found, we are sometimes misunderstood to be <a title="Arrogance or hubris" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubris">arrogant</a> or presenting our faith as superior or more complete than theirs.  Yes, if you invite someone to share in your happiness then you are presenting what you have found to be of great worth.</p>
<p>This is a difficult task to perform.  We are commanded to <a title="Declare the truth" href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/75/1-5#1">raise our voices</a> to let the world know of the events pertaining to <a title="Church history chronology" href="http://scriptures.lds.org/chchrono/contents">the founding of our church</a>.  We have been asked to <a title="Warn your neighbor" href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/88/81#81">be bold</a> in declaring that God has called <a title="Prophets" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Prophet">prophets</a> in our day and that he has sent <a title="Angels" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Angels">angels</a> to ordain and teach truths that have long been lost from the world.</p>
<p><strong>Some truths are not relative</strong></p>
<p>And thus we arrive at the heart of the conflict between orthodox conservative Mormons and progressive liberal Mormons.  What is <a title="Truth" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Truth">truth</a>?  Can one say with any degree of certainty that they have found the best and most complete source of truth without excluding the many other sources of truth that are found in the world?</p>
<p>Truth is reality. Some kinds of truth can only be received through <a title="Revelation" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Revelation">revelation</a>. I have never seen God or Jesus. I was not there when Joseph received the <a title="First Vision" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/First_Vision">First Vision</a>. So for me to be able to know those facts, they have to be revealed to me by the <a title="Holy Ghost" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Holy_Ghost">Holy Ghost</a>.  Some truths are either <a title="Mystery of Godliness" href="http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=6946">revealed of God</a> or they <a title="McConkie - relationship with God" href="http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=6843">remain unknown</a>.</p>
<p><strong>Truths received by revelation</strong></p>
<p>The five pillars of the <a title="LDS Testimony" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Testimony">LDS testimony</a> require revelation: God lives, Jesus is the Christ, the Savior called Joseph as a prophet, the <a title="Book of Mormon" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Book_of_Mormon">Book of Mormon</a> was brought forth by the <a title="Joseph has done more..." href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/135/3#3">gift and power of God</a> and the church that Joseph established is authorized of God to administer the <a title="Ordinances" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Ordinances">ordinances of salvation</a> that God requires.</p>
<p>Without <a title="Revelation" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Revelation">revelation</a> from the <a title="Holy Ghost" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Holy_Ghost">Holy Ghost</a> we can’t say that we know these things. It’s just not logical. I have studied the Book of Mormon and the Church that claims to be God’s only church authorized to administer the ordinances of salvation. With revelation from the Holy Ghost I can say I know they are what they claim to be.</p>
<p><strong>Summary and conclusion</strong></p>
<p>In some things in life, it is wise to take a position characterized by my Mission President’s <a title="Missionaries and Sandinistas" href="http://www.3tcm.net/CivilWar.htm">response to the Sandinistas</a> – shades of grey.  We do not always know all the facts of some situations and should withhold judgment until a later time.  However, in some critical matters, we must take a position and know for ourselves.</p>
<p>It takes work and determination to obtain knowledge about the five pillars of an LDS <a title="Testimony" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Testimony">testimony</a>.  But I, and millions of others over the years, can say with great certainty that God does reveal knowledge about himself and his prophets to those who diligently seek it.  This revealed knowledge does not come in shades of grey.</p>
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		<title>There is no middle ground</title>
		<link>http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/there-is-no-middle-ground/</link>
		<comments>http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/there-is-no-middle-ground/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 07:15:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Tim Malone</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Angelic visatations]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Angels]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Answers to prayer]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Anti-Mormons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Authority]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[boldness]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Book of Mormon]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Burning of the bosom]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Cognitive dissonance]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Criticism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[DAMU]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Disaffected Mormons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Doubt]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[eternal marriage]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[Gospel knowledge]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[LDS Doctrine]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[life after death]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Marriage]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Middle ground]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Modern Revelation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mormon Doctrine]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mormonism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mormons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Moroni 10:4]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Only true church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Opposition]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Personal Revelation]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[President Hinckley]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[Temples]]></category>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/?p=397</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In the priesthood session of the April 2003 General Conference, President Hinckley delivered a landmark address on the subject of loyalty.   In his remarks he said, “Each of us has to face the truth of the matter—either the church is &#8230; <a href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/there-is-no-middle-ground/">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img class="alignleft size-thumbnail wp-image-398" title="preshinckley" src="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/preshinckley-150x150.jpg" alt="preshinckley" width="150" height="150" />In the <a title="Priesthood" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Priesthood">priesthood</a> session of the <a title="April 2003 General Conference" href="http://lds.org/conference/sessions/display/0,5239,23-1-353,00.html">April 2003</a> <a title="General Conference" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/General_Conference">General Conference</a>, <a title="President Hinckley" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Gordon_B._Hinckley">President Hinckley</a> delivered a landmark address on the subject of <a title="Loyalty" href="http://lds.org/conference/talk/display/0,5232,23-1-353-21,00.html">loyalty</a>.   In his remarks he said, “Each of us has to face the truth of the matter—either the church is true, or it is a fraud.  <strong><em>There is no middle ground</em></strong>.  It is the Church and <a title="Kingdom of God" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Kingdom_of_God">kingdom of God</a> or it is nothing.”</p>
<p>An earlier prophet, <a title="Joseph Fielding Smith" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Joseph_Fielding_Smith">Joseph Fielding Smith</a> wrote something similar in the <a title="Doctrines of Salvation" href="http://deseretbook.com/store/product/5020291">Doctrines of Salvation:</a> “<a title="Mormonism" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Mormonism">Mormonism</a>, as it is called, must stand on the story of <a title="Joseph Smith" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Joseph_Smith">Joseph Smith</a>.  He was either a <a title="Mormon Prophet" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Prophet">prophet of God</a>, divinely called, properly appointed and commissioned, or he was one of the biggest frauds this world has ever seen.  <strong><em>There is no middle ground</em></strong>.”</p>
<p><strong>There can be no gray area</strong></p>
<p>Referring to the historical events of the area around <a title="Palmyra" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Palmyra">Palmyra</a>, New York, President Hinckley said: “They either happened or they did not. There can be no gray area, <strong><em>no middle ground</em></strong>.”   In a similar manner, Apostle <a title="Joseph B Wirthlin" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Joseph_B._Wirthlin">Joseph B. Wirthlin</a> said, “Joseph Smith must be accepted either as a prophet of God or else as a charlatan of the first order.”</p>
<p><a title="President Benson" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Ezra_Taft_Benson">President Benson</a> endorsed this all or nothing view.  He said, “Just as the arch crumbles if the keystone is removed, so does all the Church stand or fall with the truthfulness of the <a title="Book of Mormon" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Book_of_Mormon">Book of Mormon</a>…if it can be discredited, the Prophet Joseph Smith goes with it. So does our claim to <a title="Priesthood Keys" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Keys_of_the_Priesthood">priesthood keys</a>, and <a title="Revelation" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Revelation">revelation</a>, and the <a title="Restoration" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Restoration">restored Church</a>.”</p>
<p><strong>They were all wrong</strong></p>
<p>Such black and white statements go all the way back to the beginnings of the <a title="LDS Church" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints">LDS church</a>.  When the prophet Joseph asked God <a title="JS-H 1:18-19" href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/18-19#18">which church he should join</a>, he “was answered that I must join none of them, for <strong><em>they were all wrong</em></strong>.”  If all the churches of Joseph’s day were wrong, what does that say about the numerous churches of our day?</p>
<p>The Lord later said to Joseph in <a title="D&amp;C 1:29-30" href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/1/29-30#29">Section one</a> of the <a title="Doctrine and Covenants" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Doctrine_and_Covenants">Doctrine and Covenants</a> that the church Joseph organized was “the <strong><em>only true and living church</em></strong> upon the face of the whole earth.”  If you look, you can find dozens of similar statements by prophets and apostles throughout the history of our church, all very bold in their declarations.</p>
<p><strong>Divisive and exclusivist</strong></p>
<p>Of course, statements like these are labeled divisive and exclusivist by many people outside our church, but also, increasingly by members on the fringe of the church, also known as the <a title="DAMU" href="http://mormonism.suite101.com/article.cfm/disaffected_mormon_underground">disaffected Mormon underground</a>.  The DAMU is nothing new.  There have been <a title="Cultural Mormon" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Mormon">cultural Mormons</a> and <a title="Jack Mormon" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Mormon">Jack Mormons</a> throughout the history of our church.</p>
<p>Of all the objections to the church that I have encountered over the past few years I have been blogging, this one seems to be the most common and the most offensive.  For some, it is an extremely difficult proposition to accept this black or white, all or nothing approach to <a title="Truth in Religion" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Truth">truth in religion</a>.  I have spent considerable time pondering why this is so.</p>
<p><strong>Good and truth in all religions</strong></p>
<p>Joseph Smith taught that we accept truth from whatever source it may come.  <a title="Joseph F. Smith" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Joseph_F._Smith">Joseph F. Smith</a> said, “We are willing to <a title="Gospel Doctrine, p.1" href="http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&amp;locale=0&amp;sourceId=66a205481ae6b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&amp;vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD">receive all truth, from whatever source</a> it may come; for truth will stand, truth will endure…”  Modern prophets have said that there is much good and truth in all churches and religions.  This statement doesn’t seem too limiting.</p>
<p>President Hinckley: “We recognize the <a title="Good in all churches" href="http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&amp;locale=0&amp;sourceId=c069dbdcc370c010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&amp;vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD">good in all churches</a>. We recognize the value of religion generally. We say to everyone: live the teachings which you have received from your church. We invite you to come and learn from us, to see if we can <em><strong>add to those teachings</strong></em> and enhance your life and your understanding of things sacred and divine.”</p>
<p><strong>Something unique to add</strong></p>
<p>What can the LDS faith add that is unique and will bless the lives of those who accept its teachings?  The most unique thing we offer can be found in the <a title="Mormon temples" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Mormon_Temples">temples</a>.  It is the <a title="Sealing Power" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Sealing#Sealing_Power">sealing power</a> that is exercised to unite families in an eternal bond that will remain in effect after this life is over.  That is an amazing claim that no other church can make.</p>
<p>We teach that the sealing power is a part of the <a title="Priesthood Authority" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Priesthood_Authority">priesthood authority</a> that we claim was delivered to Joseph Smith via angelic messengers.  I don’t know of any other church that asserts that <a title="Angels" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Angels">angels</a> have come and ordained their leaders or conferred upon them <a title="Section 110" href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/110">keys and powers</a> that will <a title="Matt 16:19" href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/matt/16/19#19">bind on earth and in heaven</a>.  That is a fantastic declaration!</p>
<p><strong>Our eternal nature</strong></p>
<p>The older I get, the more important that claim becomes to me.  If I know nothing else, I know that there is a <a title="Spirit body" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Spirit_Body">spiritual side</a> of my existence.  I have had too many experiences of a spiritual nature that have helped me to understand this truth.  Others may claim that there is nothing more to man than skin, muscle and bones, but I believe differently.</p>
<p>Because of that very basic and core fundamental belief about myself, I am concerned about what my <a title="Purpose of life" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Purpose_of_Life">purpose is in life</a> and <a title="Spirit world" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Spirit_World">what happens after death</a>.  I am so grateful to be a part of a community of faith, a church that believes as I do that life is eternal and that what we do with our lives will have a significant impact on the quality of life hereafter.</p>
<p><strong>Importance of the temples</strong></p>
<p>That belief in <a title="John 17:2-3" href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/john/17/2-3#2">life eternal</a> is not unique, but the idea that we can do something to ensure that the relationships we enjoy here continue in the hereafter is very unique indeed.  I have had dialog with visitors to my blog who claim that God would never be so mean as to separate a loving couple who cherished and served each other all their mortal lives.</p>
<p>I’m not going to point you to any <a title="Celestial marriage" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Celestial_marriage">statements from church leaders</a> that teach otherwise but I will say this: before you go making claims about how God should behave, you might want to be absolutely sure of what God has said on the subject.  I can’t think of anything about which I would want to be surer.  My eternal happiness depends on it.</p>
<p><strong>Book of Mormon is still the key</strong></p>
<p>Back to the point of the essay and why prophets have said that there can be <em><strong>no middle ground</strong></em> when it comes to things like authority and revelation and Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon.  My mother, who was a convert to the church, once said to me that as an investigator, she could accept everything about it except the <a title="Book of Mormon" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Book_of_Mormon">Book of Mormon</a>.</p>
<p>It wasn’t until much later in life when she took an <a title="Institute" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Institute">Institute</a> class on the subject that she really began to understand just how important it is to our claims of divine origin.  I love the fact that we do not have <a title="Gold Plates" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Gold_Plates">the plates</a> to “prove” the historicity of the book.  Prophets have taught that the Book of Mormon is a great sifter of those who are honest in heart.</p>
<p><strong>The power of a divine witness</strong></p>
<p>I know there are those who have said that they have tried and failed to obtain a witness of the veracity of the Book of Mormon.  I have had dialog with people both inside and outside the church who have struggled with this.  I confess that I cannot offer a perfect empathy because <a title="Personal Revelation" href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/a-call-for-more-personal-revelation/">I received a witness</a> of the truthfulness of the book many years ago.</p>
<p>Because of that divine manifestation to me, not just once but <a title="Testimony at Rick's College" href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/a-different-kind-of-religious-education/">on several occasions</a>, I have never doubted the Book of Mormon, or the claims of the prophet Joseph Smith. I understand why the prophets have said that the Book of Mormon is the <a title="Keystone of our religion" href="http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&amp;locale=0&amp;sourceId=50db94bf3938b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&amp;vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD">keystone of our religion</a> and why our claims of divinity rest upon the veracity of that book.  I also agree with the statement that the <a title="Strength of members" href="http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&amp;locale=0&amp;sourceId=18659209df38b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&amp;vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD">strength of this church is in the testimony</a> of each member.</p>
<p><strong>The promise of personal revelation</strong></p>
<p>One of my evangelical visitors once called this security that I feel, <a title="Burning of the bosom" href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/burning-of-the-bosom-feelings-from-god/">the Mormon bubble</a>.  He says it is not logical but it makes perfect sense to me.  You can throw out all kinds of arguments about the <a title="Book of Abraham" href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/objections-to-the-book-of-abraham/">Book of Abraham</a>, <a title="Plural wives of Joseph" href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/the-plural-wives-of-joseph-smith/">Polyandry</a>, <a title="Post Manifesto polygamy" href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/no-such-thing-as-mormon-fundamentalism/">Post-manifesto plural marriage</a>, the <a title="Kinderhook plates" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Kinderhook_plates">Kinderhook Plates</a> or any one a few dozen other things that can be found on the Internet.</p>
<p>None of them bothered me when I first learned about them and none of them do now.  I have written <a title="General Authority subjects" href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/general-authority-training-advanced-subjects/">essays on dozens of these objections</a> and have come to the conclusion that they really aren’t the real problem with why people doubt or leave the church.  In my opinion, those who struggle with these doubts have not received <a title="Apostasy" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Apostate">personal revelation</a>.</p>
<p><strong>Summary and conclusion</strong></p>
<p>I know that a <a title="Testimony" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Testimony">testimony</a> is a very sacred and personal subject.  I also know that making a generalization like I just did will bring all kinds of protests.  But I stand by it as truth.  If a man has received a <a title="Gift of the Holy Ghost" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Gift_of_the_Holy_Ghost">witness from God</a> that the Book of Mormon is true then God has a responsibility to help that man as he goes through the ensuing <a title="Trials" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Trials">trials</a> of that testimony.</p>
<p>I know that God will help the honest in heart keep their testimonies strong and vibrant.  If we <a title="Gospel Study" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Bible_Study">study</a> we are going to find out things that will test our witness.  We will then have the opportunity to strengthen and deepen it.  That’s what opposition is for.  We do not have to wallow in doubt.  But those who doubt are welcome while they work things out.</p>
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		<title>What they don’t tell you about Bishopric meetings</title>
		<link>http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/bishopric-meetings/</link>
		<comments>http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/bishopric-meetings/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 15 Jun 2009 21:10:56 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Tim Malone</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Answers to prayer]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bishopric]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Bishopric meetings]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Burning of the bosom]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[callings]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Church leadership]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Counselor]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Discipleship]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Excommunication]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Gifts of the Spirit]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Holy Ghost]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Holy Spirit]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Inspiration]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Keys of the Kingdom]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[LDS Church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Leadership]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Leadership Training]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Magnify calling]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Modern Revelation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mormon Church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mormonism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[PEC]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Personal Revelation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Prayer]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Rough Stone Rolling]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Scripture Study]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Service]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Spirit of the Lord]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Spiritual Experiences]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[Ward Council]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/?p=373</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Except for a year off for good behavior to teach Primary, I have been participating in ward leadership meetings every Sunday morning for the past twenty-five years.  Sixteen of those years included Bishopric meetings, either as an Executive Secretary, a &#8230; <a href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/bishopric-meetings/">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img class="alignleft size-thumbnail wp-image-379" title="priesthoodleaders" src="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/priesthoodleaders-150x115.jpg" alt="priesthoodleaders" width="150" height="115" />Except for a year off for good behavior to teach <a title="Primary" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Primary">Primary</a>, I have been participating in <a title="Ward leadership" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Mormon_leadership">ward leadership</a> meetings every Sunday morning for the past twenty-five years.  Sixteen of those years included <a title="Bishopric" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Bishopric">Bishopric</a> meetings, either as an Executive Secretary, a <a title="Ward clerk" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Clerk">Ward Clerk</a>, or a Bishop’s <a title="Counselor" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Counselor">Counselor</a>.  I don’t know why I’ve been so blessed but this experience has been a major part of my adult life.</p>
<p>Since Carol and I have lived in multiple <a title="Ward" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Ward">wards</a> and <a title="State" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Stake">stakes</a> over the years, I have sat in council with at least ten different <a title="Bishop" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Bishop">bishops</a>, sometimes as a <a title="High Council" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/High_Council">High Council</a> advisor.  Two of the wards have been <a title="YSA" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Young_Single_Adults">young single adult</a> wards.  I’ve got to tell you that there is something special about Bishops of YSA wards.  In one YSA ward, the Bishop and one counselor had both been <a title="Stake President" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Stake_President">Stake Presidents</a>.</p>
<p><strong>Love of the people</strong></p>
<p>Not one of these bishops ran things exactly the same as others with whom I served.  Some were good <a title="Administrator" href="http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/administrator">administrators</a> and some weren’t.  Some knew how to <a title="Delegate" href="http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/delegate">delegate</a> and others had a tendency to do most of the work themselves.  Some were sticklers for following the <a title="Church Handbook" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/General_Handbook_of_Instructions">handbook</a> and some weren’t.  But all were focused on the people over the programs.  Without exception.  Every one.</p>
<p>If there is one thing that stands out among bishops with whom I have worked, and one thing that to me represents the <a title="Mantle" href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/2_kgs/2/8,13-14#8">mantle</a> of a bishop, it is a love for the people whom they serve, especially the <a title="LDS Youth" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Youth">youth.</a>  That love is the same thing that impressed me about the bishops of my youth.  I knew they all cared deeply about me and wanted to help me grow into a successful and faithful adult.</p>
<p><strong>Desire to do God’s will</strong></p>
<p>Now I know that not everybody has this experience with their bishops.  Yes, I have read some of the horror stories.  I am acquainted with the claims of spiritual <a title="Abuse from About.com" href="http://lds.about.com/od/basicsgospelprinciples/p/abuse.htm">abuse,</a> but have not seen it with any of the bishops in my experience.  Some of the bishops would sometimes complain about the dumb things that members of the ward would do, but I never saw any <a title="D&amp;C 121:33-37" href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/121/33-37#33">unrighteous dominion</a>.</p>
<p>I have sat in literally dozens of <a title="Disciplinary procedures" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Disciplinary_Procedures">disciplinary councils</a> over the years, both on the ward and stake level.  Even when the result was <a title="Excommunication" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Excommunication">excommunication</a>, I have never felt anything but profound love and concern for the individual and an intense desire to do the will of the Lord in the matter being considered.  That has always been the common desire of these bishops, who are imperfect men.</p>
<p><strong>A tech savvy bishop</strong></p>
<p>In today’s Internet age, I am grateful to serve with a Bishop today who understands and uses <a title="Text Messaging" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Text_messaging">texting</a> to keep in touch with his flock, in this case, all <a title="YSA definition" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Young_Single_Adults">young single adults</a>.  He is also savvy about the <a title="Internet" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet">Internet</a> and knows exactly what goes on out there.  He is aware of the <a title="LDS discussion boards" href="http://www.3tcm.net/ldsboards.htm">LDS forums</a>, both those that are uplifting and those that aren’t.  And yes, he has read <a title="Rough Stone Rolling" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rough_Stone_Rolling">Rough Stone Rolling</a>.</p>
<p>I bring that up because it is indicative of a Bishop who is aware of what the young people are reading.  I am a <a title="Xhurch News" href="http://newsroom.lds.org">church news</a> junkie and am constantly amazed by how well informed this bishop is in comparison to some previous bishops.  Maybe it’s just that we are living in the day of the Internet, but it’s a delight to have conversations about items being discussed in the <a title="Bloggernacle" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloggernacle">Bloggernacle</a>.</p>
<p><strong>Great Bishopric meetings</strong></p>
<p>Because most bishops are usually counseling members during <a title="Sunday school" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Sunday_School">Sunday school</a>, we take the first part of our Bishopric meeting for <a title="Gospel study" href="http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=9d885f74db46c010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&amp;locale=0&amp;sourceId=935fcb7a29c20110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&amp;hideNav=1">gospel study</a>.  Sometimes we will spend a half hour discussing a scripture or a quote from the <a title="Brethren" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Brethren">Brethren</a> and how it applies to us and to the <a title="Ward" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Ward">ward</a> members.  Some of the bishops I served with preferred shorter meetings so we did not have lengthy gospel study.</p>
<p>I have long felt that a <a title="Ward Leadership" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Church_Organization">ward leadership</a> meeting should never be more than an hour.  If you’re going to make it longer, that time should be well spent in understanding the will of the Lord as revealed in the <a title="Scriptures" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Scriptures">scriptures</a> in these latter days.  The majority of a <a title="Bishopric" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Bishopric">Bishopric</a> meeting is consumed with <a title="Ward Organization" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Ward_Organization">staffing the ward</a>, which of course involves discussing the right <a title="Callings" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Mormon_Callings">calling</a> for ward members.</p>
<p><strong>Callings through inspiration</strong></p>
<p>If you have never sat in a Bishopric meeting you may wonder how <a title="Callings" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Callings">callings</a> are determined.  Of course we always open our meetings with prayer, and usually sing a <a title="Mormon music" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Mormon_Music">hymn</a> first and then have a spiritual thought.  We review the list of recent <a title="Convert" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Convert">converts</a> to determine if they are progressing in the gospel.  As we are a transient ward, we are also constantly reviewing the new move-in list.</p>
<p>The Bishop usually ponders for a long time who the Lord would have fulfill a <a title="Leadership in the church" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Leadership_in_the_Church">major calling</a> like the head of an organization.  Those do not come up very often.  When they do, the Bishop will usually inform his counselors of who he has in mind, after which a discussion ensues of how that individual will fulfill that particular calling and how the needs of the ward members will be met.</p>
<p><strong>Gift of discernment</strong></p>
<p>The Bishop is very concerned that callings issued to ward members are ones that will bless them, that will help them to grow and that are the will of the Lord.  I can’t tell you how many times I have heard Bishops pray for the <a title="Gift of discernment" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Discernment%2C_Gift_of">gift of discernment</a> to know where the Lord would have certain individuals serve.  Serving in the church is a big deal and it helps us to grow and to love others.</p>
<p>Although it doesn’t always happen, I have been amazed at the number of times as a counselor I have <a title="Callings" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Calling">issued a call</a> to an individual to hear them say that they were praying for an opportunity to serve and that they knew that this particular call was coming.  It is rewarding to see that when we pray for <a title="Inspiration" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Inspiration">inspiration</a> to place people in callings that the inspiration is real and is from the Lord.</p>
<p><strong>Accepting callings</strong></p>
<p>I don’t know if my experience has been unique in issuing calls but I can only remember a couple of occasions on which I did not extend the call after we had agreed upon it in Bishopric meeting.  It became apparent after an interview in the home of the individual that the calling would not be in their best interest at that time.  It is usually because I learned of extenuating circumstances.</p>
<p>You may wonder why we weren’t inspired that the call wasn’t right before we went to extend it.  Remember, we had prayed for inspiration and felt united as a Bishopric that it was the right thing to do at that time.  All I can tell you is that this has rarely happened and that it just may be a part of the inspiration process to visit the home before the spirit can confirm that it is OK to proceed.</p>
<p><strong>Confirmation of the spirit</strong></p>
<p>Perhaps a description of the process we go through when we deliberate in a <a title="Disciplinary Council" href="http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&amp;locale=0&amp;sourceId=edc72150a447b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&amp;hideNav=1">disciplinary council</a> will help explain the process of inspiration a little better.  After hearing the facts of the matter, we excuse the individual and discuss the options outlined in the <a title="Church Handbook" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/General_Handbook_of_Instructions">church handbook</a>.  The primary concern is always how the action we take will affect the individual and help them to repent.</p>
<p>We make a decision an then present it to the Lord in prayer.  We each kneel and the Bishop asks one of those present to offer the prayer.  We tell the Lord what we have decided and ask that we may know through a confirming witness of the spirit that the decision is right.  We then conclude the prayer and the Bishop usually asks each member of the council if they are still in agreement.</p>
<p><strong>Knowledge revealed from God</strong></p>
<p>Sometimes the will of the Lord is obvious to all present.  There is an unspoken communication that takes place between us.  We each just know that the decision is correct.  We know by the same process that individual members receive a <a title="Testimony" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Testimony">testimony</a> – by knowledge from the <a title="Holy Ghost" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Holy_Ghost">Holy Ghost</a>.  That is one of the blessings of serving in a Bishopric.  You come to know how <a title="Revelation" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Revelation">revelation</a> works.</p>
<p>That’s what most people don’t know about Bishopric meetings – the amazing experience that we have each week with revelation.  It is one of the best training grounds for understanding how the Lord communicates his will to the mind of man.  I can tell you from many years of rich and deep experience that this process of revelation has always been present and it is a sacred experience.</p>
<p><strong>Summary and conclusion</strong></p>
<p>You may know former bishops or bishopric counselors who have said that there is a lot of small administrative detail that goes on in priesthood leadership meetings.  You may even be a former bishop yourself.  Yes, I agree that it can be tedious week after week to address some of the same issues over and over as callings need to be filled.  It takes effort to ensure that God is involved.</p>
<p>Bishopric meetings can be a most amazing and rewarding experience as humble yet imperfect men unite in prayer to seek the mind and will of the Lord on behalf of the people that they serve.  But to me, the most gratifying part of serving in a Bishopric is to be tutored by the <a title="Holy Ghost" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Holy_Ghost">Holy Ghost</a> in how <a title="Revelation" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Revelation">revelation</a> works.  It is a real thing and it is used constantly to further the work of the Lord.</p>
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		<title>Spiritual experiences as a foundation for faith</title>
		<link>http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/spiritual-experiences-as-a-foundation-for-faith/</link>
		<comments>http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/spiritual-experiences-as-a-foundation-for-faith/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 01:30:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Tim Malone</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Answers to prayer]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Cognitive dissonance]]></category>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/?p=333</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have been intrigued by Blake Ostler’s 2007 FAIR conference presentation entitled, “Spiritual Experiences as the Basis for Belief and Commitment.”  I have read it several times and have decided that Blake is on to something that I would like &#8230; <a href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/spiritual-experiences-as-a-foundation-for-faith/">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img class="alignleft size-thumbnail wp-image-338" title="josephplates" src="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/josephplates-150x150.jpg" alt="josephplates" width="150" height="150" />I have been intrigued by <a title="Blake Ostler" href="http://www.blakeostler.com">Blake Ostler</a>’s 2007 <a title="FAIR" href="http://www.fairlds.org/">FAIR</a> conference <a title="Blake's essay FAIR 2007" href="http://www.fairlds.org/FAIR_Conferences/2007_Spiritual_Experiences.html">presentation</a> entitled, “Spiritual Experiences as the Basis for Belief and Commitment.”  I have read it several times and have decided that Blake is on to something that I would like to develop further.  As you can see I have modified his title a little bit for use in my essay.  I highly recommend you read <a title="Blake's essay" href="http://www.fairlds.org/FAIR_Conferences/2007_Spiritual_Experiences.html">his essay</a> first.</p>
<p>I’m going to focus on two points he made as he was answering questions towards the end of the presentation.  The first is this: “Memory, and what we do, is changed every time we think about it and remember it.”  The second is this: “All logic is <em>ex post facto</em> to prove what we already feel is true.”  Keep those points in mind as I advance some ideas on my experience with revelation.</p>
<p><strong>Youthful revelatory experiences</strong></p>
<p>Like Blake, I had some remarkable <a title="Revelation" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Revelation">revelatory experiences</a> when I was young that impressed me at the time but have impressed me even more as I have pondered and remembered them over the years.  I have written about them previously, but will list them here to provide some background.  Don’t think that these sacred events were easily obtained or casually absorbed.  They weren’t.</p>
<p>I was taught and believe that we <a title="Cannot live on borrowed light" href="http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&amp;locale=0&amp;sourceId=9a7e945bd384b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&amp;hideNav=1">cannot live on borrowed light</a>.  Throughout my <a title="Seminary" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Seminary">Seminary</a> and <a title="Institute" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Institute">Institute</a> experience, I must have heard dozens of lessons on how vitally important it is to obtain our own <a title="Testimony" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Testimony">witness of the spirit</a> in order to remain committed to the church and the gospel in later years.  My teachers taught me and the spirit confirmed that I could receive <a title="Revelation" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Revelation">personal revelation</a>.</p>
<p><strong>Foundational spiritual events</strong></p>
<p>The first <a title="Rick's College experience" href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/a-different-kind-of-religious-education/">revelatory experience</a> to which I’ll refer was obtained while I was a student at BYU Idaho.  I was seventeen years old and very immature but very impressed with a testimony I had heard that week from an Apostle of the Lord.  That weekend in my room I prayed fervently for many hours to know for myself that what he had said was true and important for me in my life.</p>
<p>The next impressive spiritual event in the development of my testimony was the next year when I was eighteen years old and preparing myself to serve a mission.  I have also shared this one in <a title="Personal revelation" href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/a-call-for-more-personal-revelation/">a previous essay</a>.  The experience was equally as impressive as the first one though it was perhaps deeper in meaning and implication.  These are part of my early foundational spiritual memories.</p>
<p><strong>Deep impact on my faith</strong></p>
<p>These were not my only youthful revelatory experiences.  I have recorded several others in my journals that came almost unbidden during the years before my mission.  Although I received them as a result of prayer, the effort was not as intense.  In other words, I did not pray for many hours or fast for days to obtain the other experiences.  Nevertheless, they were just as powerful.</p>
<p>Because of these events, I was able to go through the difficult and rigorous experience of <a title="My missionary experience" href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/the-teaching-and-testifying-missionary/">serving as a missionary</a> without looking back and wondering why I decided to sacrifice like that for two years.  I had these sacred memories burning in my heart and being added unto with additional everyday assurances from the Lord that I was engaged in his work and that he was appreciative.</p>
<p><strong>Working with imperfect people</strong></p>
<p>Life marches on.  An education is obtained, a <a title="My marriage" href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/the-sacred-power-of-marriage/">marriage</a> is solemnized in the temple, a family is raised and increasing responsibilities in a career and in the church are rewarding and fulfilling.  As sometimes happens, I begin to learn things about my faith, and especially about the people in it that are at first disturbing and then disappointing.  I experience some logical inconsistencies.</p>
<p><a title="Cognitive Dissonance" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance">Cognitive dissonance</a> can be a painful experience when it includes people from our world who are in authoritative positions.  For example, a beloved <a title="Bishop" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Bishop">bishop</a> from my youth became inactive after he was released.  How could this happen?  He represented the Lord to me in interviews that I held sacred.  He helped me resolve several youthful problems and encouraged me to be faithful.</p>
<p><strong>Imperfections even at high levels</strong></p>
<p>Another bishop from my youth is disciplined after fiscal improprieties in his business dealings are revealed.  I learn of divorces of people whom I admired, some of whom were influential in my youth.  I then begin to learn of difficulties in higher levels of the church – stake presidents who lose their testimonies and announce to their congregations that they are leaving the faith.</p>
<p>A <a title="George P Lee" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_P._Lee">promising general authority</a> is excommunicated for breaking the law of chastity.  I discover that an <a title="Richard R. Lyman" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_R._Lyman">apostle was excommunicated</a> for this very same reason less than forty years earlier.  How is this possible – a modern apostle excommunicated?  I can understand it happening in the early days of the church but not in our day and age.  These are men of God.  Tell me this wasn’t so!</p>
<p><strong>Sacred things exposed and mocked</strong></p>
<p>I discovered that a former ordinance worker in the temple had recorded the temple ceremony and then published it.  How could he do that?  I hold the temple sacred and have enjoyed so many wonderful experiences there over the years.  What could cause him to lose his faith and reveal something that means so much to me?  Did he never have any spiritual experiences of his own?</p>
<p>From the earliest days of the church there have been those who have not been impressed with the sacred nature of the temple and have exposed things that they have covenanted to keep sacred.  In our day there are those who claim to have received the <a title="Second Annointing" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_anointing">second anointing</a> and then describe it on the message boards of those who hate the church.  Something’s not right with this picture.</p>
<p><strong>Not all members receive revelation</strong></p>
<p>I used to think that everybody in the church had spiritual experiences similar to those I enjoyed in my youth.  Over the years, I have come to realize that this is not the case.  Can that be true even for those who have served as bishops, <a title="Stake President" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Stake_President">stake presidents</a> or even <a title="General Authority" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/General_Authority">general authorities</a>?  In my opinion, yes &#8211; personal experience has shown this to be so.  Not all members receive revelation.</p>
<p>That has been an amazing thing for me to contemplate.  Was I just extremely lucky or blessed to believe that I could receive revelation when I was so young?  Several visitors to my blog over the years have tried to convince me that I did not receive revelation.  They have suggested that what I experienced was a form of self-hypnosis, or simply the effect of a frenzied, emotional state.</p>
<p><strong>Memories can be enlarged</strong></p>
<p>Back to Blake’s two points, memory first.  I have come to realize that although my early spiritual experiences occurred nearly thirty-five years ago, they are clearer in my mind now then when I first experienced them.  The combination of pondering them and writing about them has helped me to understand that there was much more detail in the experiences than what I first thought.</p>
<p>As Blake pointed out in his essay, this helps me to understand why Joseph Smith could recount the same <a title="First Vision" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/First_Vision">First Vision</a> experience differently in <a title="Multiple accounts of First Vision" href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/multiple-versions-of-the-first-vision/">each of the accounts</a> he relates over the years.  I was so focused on determining my own standing before God in my first youthful manifestation that I had overlooked how deeply and powerfully the Lord spoke to me about missionary labors.</p>
<p><strong>How to explain all this</strong></p>
<p>Blake’s second point was that all logic is created to prove what we already feel is true.  I have had prima facia experiences that overrule any logical inconsistencies I have encountered in what I have learned about the history and people of this church as I have studied it in more depth.  In effect, I have not really experienced cognitive dissonance at all because the spiritual trumps logical.</p>
<p>Let me restate that.  My spiritual revelatory experiences with the Holy Ghost early in my life have proven to be so powerful that it seems that no matter what kind of troubling things I may learn about the men who run or have run this church, I feel inoculated and immune to their effect.  My evangelical friends call this “living in the protective Mormon bubble of a testimony.”</p>
<p><strong>Summary and conclusion</strong></p>
<p>My experiences with the <a title="Holy Ghost" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Holy_Ghost">Holy Ghost</a> are not going to be the same as yours.  They may be similar or they may be completely different.  For me, these revelatory events in my youth have provided a foundation for my experiences in this church thus far.  I have encountered much imperfection and weakness in the men who run it, but the spiritual witnesses of my life have protected me.</p>
<p>The bottom line is that I continue to believe that the <a title="LDS Church" href="http://www.lds.org">LDS Church</a> is what it claims to be when it was setup through the prophet Joseph Smith <a title="Organization of the church" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Organization_of_the_Church%2C_1830">in 1830</a>.  The simple fact is that we can know this for ourselves through revelatory encounters with the Holy Ghost.  No matter what negative things I discover, nothing can overcome the strength of that personal witness if I remain worthy.</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;</p>
<p>Note about the illustration: This artist&#8217;s conception of Joseph translating the <a title="Book of Mormon" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Book_of_Mormon">Book of Mormon</a> is one that is highly criticized by some members of the church.  They feel it is disingenuous because it does not show Joseph using the <a title="Seer stone in a hat" href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/seer-stone-in-a-hat-book-of-mormon-translation/">seer stones in the hat</a>.  It also shows the plates in plain view of Oliver which was not the case.  Joseph was not to show them to anyone unless commanded of the Lord.</p>
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		<title>For they were all wrong</title>
		<link>http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/for-they-were-all-wrong/</link>
		<comments>http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/for-they-were-all-wrong/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 07 Aug 2008 07:06:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Tim Malone</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[First Vision]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Joseph Smith]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Only true church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[True Church]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/?p=156</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In our Pearl of Great Price Summer Institute class this evening we studied Joseph Smith History verses one through twenty. You know the story. It’s the First Vision. We had a substitute teacher this evening, a judge from the local &#8230; <a href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/for-they-were-all-wrong/">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_PQ20a3fjz14/SJqmooStQnI/AAAAAAAAAkQ/UhTSh3g_Atg/s1600-h/FirstVision.jpg"><img id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5231677134085112434" style="FLOAT: left; MARGIN: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; WIDTH: 103px; CURSOR: pointer; HEIGHT: 136px" alt="" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_PQ20a3fjz14/SJqmooStQnI/AAAAAAAAAkQ/UhTSh3g_Atg/s200/FirstVision.jpg" border="0" /></a>In our <a href="http://www.ldsces.org/inst_manuals/pgp/manualindex.asp">Pearl of Great Price</a> Summer <a href="http://institute.lds.org/">Institute class</a> this evening we studied <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1">Joseph Smith History</a> verses one through twenty. You know the story. It’s <a href="http://www.mormon.org/mormonorg/eng/basic-beliefs/the-restoration-of-truth/the-restoration-of-the-gospel">the First Vision</a>. We had a substitute teacher this evening, a judge from the local divorce court. He’s funny and shoots from the hip so he invited discussion. There were a lot of First Vision stories shared both from the first time hearing and the first time sharing, as a missionary.</p>
<p>There has been much discussion on <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloggernacle">the Bloggernacle</a> about “<a href="http://www.templestudy.com/2008/07/29/the-one-true-church/">The One True Church</a>.” When we got to <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/19#19">verse nineteen</a>, I eagerly anticipated some discussion about The Lord’s response to Joseph when he asked which church he should join. I thought someone would bring up, as I have read in so many comments on various LDS blogs, why it is so offensive to claim that we are “The One True Church,” and that all others are wrong.</p>
<p>Nothing. Nobody said anything. So I raised my hand and volunteered that there was a lot of truth in other churches and a lot of good people in other churches. I wondered aloud if anybody had run across this argument before that we are considered arrogant and perhaps downright insulting to others when we make this claim. Nope. Nobody. These are all young adults, most born and raised in the church but a few converts, some recent.</p>
<p><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Perhaps it’s just a Bloggernacle thing</span></p>
<p>I have <a href="http://latterdaycommentary.blogspot.com/2008/03/only-true-and-living-church.html">written about this subject</a> before. Several others have written about it lately and have been taken to task for making such a claim. I am a little puzzled. Is it or is it not an issue to others who consider what we have to offer? I think of the sister in Sacrament meeting sitting next to her husband, who is not a member of our faith, when the speaker bears testimony, “I know that we are the only true and living church on the earth today.”</p>
<p>We discussed the Lord’s response: “…all their creeds were an abomination in his sight.” <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Creed">Creeds</a> of course are statements or professions of belief, in this case religious beliefs. The most well-known are the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicene_Creed">Nicene Creed</a>, the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Athanasian_Creed">Athanasian Creed</a> and the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apostles%27_Creed">Apostles Creed</a>. Many religious groups have and use creeds. Labeling them as abominations is certainly harsh. It means exceptionally detestable, loathsome, hateful, wicked or vile.</p>
<p>The Lord also said that the professors of these creeds were all corrupt; that “they draw near to me with their lips, but their hearts are far from me. They teach for doctrines the commandments of men, having a form of godliness, but they deny the power thereof.” I wonder if the Lord meant the preachers or the believers when he referred to professors. Either way, it is quite a condemnation to be called corrupt by the Lord, isn’t it?</p>
<p><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">They were all wrong</span></p>
<p>But the part of the Lord’s response that seems to have sparked the most debate over the years, and it continues today on the LDS blogs and discussion forums, is the instruction to Joseph that he “must join none of them for <span style="COLOR: rgb(255,0,0)">they were all wrong</span>…” I think it is the idea of rightness and wrongness that some people find offensive. I can only imagine that they must say to themselves that Joseph made this whole thing up, for how could the Lord say such a thing? All churches are good that teach of God, right?</p>
<p>Why is the concept of rightness and wrongness so important in a religion? This is the thing that bothered Joseph so much as he considered which church to join. He wrote that the people argued with each other about points of doctrine and each claimed to be right. He also pointed out that they lost all good feelings one for another because of their arguments. I see the same thing happening today right here in many of our LDS blogs.</p>
<p>Intelligent discussion on a group blog is one thing but it so often descends to personal attacks that you are right and they are wrong. Yet when I visit the blogs of some of these individuals I note that the contents of their blogs are mostly uplifting and contain essays that are right in line with the “orthodox” views of most members of the church. I really had to laugh the other day when <a href="http://www.bycommonconsent.com/2008/08/my-way-or-the-highway/">one blogger wrote</a>, “My opinions are orthodox. The rest of you are nuts.”</p>
<p><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Religious discussions are healthy</span></p>
<p>I guess it all depends on what you seek in your religion and in your discussions on the subject. Some are looking for intellectual stimulation and want to explore viewpoints that are perhaps not basic to our revealed theology. Others want to engage in dialog on a subject that has bothered them and are looking for clarification or justification from others. There are probably as many reasons why people discuss religion as there are people who discuss religion. I personally am looking for understanding of the views of others.</p>
<p>I hate arguments. I don’t care to prove my points right or wrong. I believe that truth can stand on its own. There have been so many defenders of the faith before me who have done a masterful job of explaining what we believe. We have a wealth of history and religious discourse over the years. We can draw upon our heritage of published writings to keep us busy for a lifetime if we could find the time to digest and summarize it.</p>
<p>I love most of the blogs I read that are listed on my sidebar. I don’t have the time to comment on all of them but enjoy reading the comments of those who do. There are some incredibly smart and faithful people out there. Thank you all for your lively discussions and for making your points of view understood. Your dialog helps me in my personal efforts to study the gospel. I am drawn to the scriptures over and over again through your remarks.</p>
<p><span style="FONT-WEIGHT: bold">Summary and conclusion</span></p>
<p>The claim that we are right has been a central part of our religion from even before the church was organized. It’s not going to go away. It’s also something for which we do not need to apologize. It is based on scripture. This church is “the <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/1/30#30">only true and living church</a> upon the face of the whole earth.” Yes, the Lord’s statement that all the other churches are all wrong is a bold statement, but it is fundamental to Mormonism.</p>
<p>There is much good in other churches. There are so many good people who do so much good as part of their faith and belief. We do not force people to accept our claim to be the only true church. We simply present the evidence of the revealed word to <a href="http://www.josephsmith.net/josephsmith">the prophet Joseph</a> and invite them to decide for themselves if it has credence or not. We can simply add our testimony and witness that we have found it to be true by our own study and prayer. Without arguing, we can discuss the doctrine and enjoy the spirit in our work.</p>
<p>I enjoy the confidence and surety that comes from this personal testimony that I belong to the only true church. I hope that it never becomes a stumbling block to anyone else. It is not something that we wave in the face or rub in the noses of others. I know that others do not enjoy this confidence. In fact, there are some who do not believe the doctrine and yet still associate with our church. They are welcome. I hope they feel that welcome.</p>
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		<title>The only true and living church</title>
		<link>http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/the-only-true-and-living-church/</link>
		<comments>http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/the-only-true-and-living-church/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 20:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Tim Malone</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Ex-Mormons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Faithfulness]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Testimony]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[True Church]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/?p=90</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[For some reason, I landed on the forums at MormonApologetics.org the other day. Oh, I remember. I got there from FAIR, which I occasionally visit just to see what&#8217;s new. There are two major LDS forums which I like to &#8230; <a href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/the-only-true-and-living-church/">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_PQ20a3fjz14/R-R2Fj5ybVI/AAAAAAAAAYA/YKNTRiQRbZE/s1600-h/Transfiguration.jpg"><img style="MARGIN: 0px 10px 10px 0px; FLOAT: left; CURSOR: hand" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5180395309291957586" border="0" alt="" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_PQ20a3fjz14/R-R2Fj5ybVI/AAAAAAAAAYA/YKNTRiQRbZE/s200/Transfiguration.jpg" /></a>For some reason, I landed on the forums at <a href="http://www.mormonapologetics.org/">MormonApologetics.org</a> the other day. Oh, I remember. I got there from <a href="http://www.fairlds.org/">FAIR</a>, which I occasionally visit just to see what&#8217;s new. There are two major LDS forums which I like to visit: The <a href="http://www.lds.net/forums/">LDS.net forums</a>, part of the <a href="http://www.moregoodfoundation.org/">MoreGood Foundation</a> and MormonApologetics. The latter is the more wild and woolly debate board. Be careful if you post there and are expecting to be treated with kid gloves. That won&#8217;t happen.</p>
<p>Now there are other discussion boards that are frequented by members and ex-members but I won&#8217;t link to them. I don&#8217;t know why I even mention them but hey, it&#8217;s a fact of life that if you are a member of the Church and you use the Internet then you have probably found them before. They are about as unavoidable as your basic anti-Momon site, of which there are hundreds. A popular one is The Foyer and another is PostMormon. There are many others.</p>
<p>The reason I brought this up is because I wanted to respond to one of the recent threads on MormonApologetics. So why don&#8217;t I post my comments there? Well, this is my blog and I write my essays here. That&#8217;s why. The entry that prompts today&#8217;s essay is from a recent convert who writes that he is struggling with the concept of the <a href="http://www.lds.org/">Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints</a> being <span style="color:#ff0000;">the only true church</span>. He wonders why we say that. He says that it feels arrogant.</p>
<p><strong><u>The scriptural source of the doctrine</u></strong></p>
<p>Section one of the Doctrine and Covenants is the Lord&#8217;s preface to the book. It was given in November of 1831 after 65 previous sections had been received. In verse thirty, the Lord declares that the Prophet Joseph Smith was given &#8220;&#8230;power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, <span style="color:#ff0000;">the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth</span>, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased&#8230;&#8221; (<a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/1/30b">D&amp;C 1:30</a>)</p>
<p>Add to that scripture the testimony of Joseph Smith as he recorded what the Savior said to him in the First Vision received in 1820. He asked which church he should join. &#8220;I was answered that <span style="color:#ff0000;">I must join none of them, for they were all wrong</span>; and the Personage who addressed me that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt.&#8221; That&#8217;s a fairly harsh condemnation of all other churches, isn&#8217;t it? Did the Lord really say that?</p>
<p>I believe he did. I have no reason to doubt the boy Prophet&#8217;s recollection and testimony of what happened on that beautiful Spring morning so long ago. True, he was but fourteen years of age when he received the visit. It is also true that this account in <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/19#19">Joseph Smith History 1:19</a> was dictated to a scribe some eighteen years after the fact. We know that the Lord speaks to men according to their understanding and knowledge. Joseph was impressed to use those words.</p>
<p><strong><u>What the other churches are missing</u></strong></p>
<p>So in what way are other churches wrong? And don&#8217;t we teach that we invite others to join us bringing with them all that is good and right with their beliefs? Of course we do. But in what sense can we claim, and we do, that we are the only true church upon the face of the earth? In priesthood keys, my friends, in <span style="color:#ff0000;">priesthood keys</span>. Why this point escapes so many is beyond me. It is such a basic claim and such a fundamental tenant of our religion. How can you miss it?</p>
<p>I hope it doesn&#8217;t bother you when someone gets up in testimony meeting and says, &#8220;I know this church is true. I know it is the only true church.&#8221; What more can you say when you hear that? The person is sharing a witness borne of the spirit that they know for themselves that what Joseph claimed and taught was true. He did indeed <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/110/11#11">receive the keys of the kingdom</a> from John the Baptist, Peter, James, John, Moses, Elias and Elijah. <span style="color:#ff0000;">This is what makes our church true</span>.</p>
<p>We are not trying to be arrogant. We are not trying to say that we are better than anyone else. We are only saying that if you want to receive the ordinances of salvation from an authorized representative of Jesus Christ, then we offer them to you. If the Savior taught that we need to be baptized by one having his authority, and he did, then I would hope that a true follower of Jesus Christ would want to be sure that an authorized representative performs the ordinance.</p>
<p><strong><u>Conclusion and why this matters</u></strong></p>
<p>This is basic doctrine. It is not new. I cannot understand why someone would leave this church, no matter what the reason, when they know that this is true. It doesn&#8217;t matter who offends you. It doesn&#8217;t matter that the members aren&#8217;t perfect. It should not matter that the bishop or the Stake President or the General Authorities are not perfect. It should not matter that we are not perfect. All that matters is that we receive the ordinances and remain true and faithful.</p>
<p>Why is that so hard?</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;</p>
<p>Update: Read what a modern prophet had to say about the subject.  President Henry B. Eyring delivered a wonderful discourse on the subject of <a href="http://lds.org/conference/talk/display/0,5232,23-1-851-7,00.html">The True and Living Church</a> at General Conference in April of 2008 just a few weeks after I wrote this essay. Note especially his discussion of keys, and ordinances and sealing power, all fundamental parts of the true church.</p>
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