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	<title>Latter-day Commentary&#187; Ex-Mormons</title>
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		<title>A Website for the Average Mormon</title>
		<link>http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/a-website-for-the-average-mormon/</link>
		<comments>http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/a-website-for-the-average-mormon/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 06 Apr 2010 04:28:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Tim Malone</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Anti-Mormons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Blog promotion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Blogs]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Controversy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Critical thinking]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Criticism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[DAMU]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Disaffected Mormons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Ex-Mormons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Former Mormons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Gospel Study]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Grant Palmer]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Intellectual study]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Intellectuals]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Knowledge]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Latter-day Commentary]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[LDS Blogging]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[LDS Doctrine]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[LDS Web sites]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mormon blogs]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mormon Doctrine]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mormon History]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mormons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[New Order Mormons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Opposition]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Post-Mormons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Testimony]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/?p=556</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I know that I’m just one of thousands of LDS members who have a website where they share their beliefs and testimonies of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ.  I like to think that I’m not much different from your average Mormon. <a href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/a-website-for-the-average-mormon/">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://www.latterdaycommentary.com/"><img class="alignleft size-full wp-image-559" title="latterdaycommentarywebsite" src="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/latterdaycommentarywebsite.jpg" alt="latterdaycommentarywebsite" width="193" height="148" /></a>I’ve been reading the arguments on <a title="MormonThink.com" href="http://www.mormonthink.com/">MormonThink.com</a> off and on for several years now.  I have a lot of respect for the individuals behind the site, even though most of them choose to be anonymous.  I am confident that I have been visited by several of the contributors there or at least by those who read their site and others like it such as <a title="Exmo, Postmo, NewOrderMo" href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/mormons-ex-post-anti-and-new-order/">Ex Mormon</a> and <a title="5 Kinds of non-Mormons" href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/five-kinds-of-non-mormons/">Post Mormon</a>.</p>
<p>I am by no means a scholar or intellectual.  I think I’m pretty smart and that I’m pretty good with logic.  After all, I have made a living for thirty years demystifying computers for others.  But I know there are a lot of people out there who are smarter than I am and who have the academic credentials to prove it.  I like to think that I’m just a regular, average, typical Latter-day Saint.</p>
<p>I like smart, thinking people and especially people who present logical conclusions well, either in writing or verbally.  Critical thinking is a skill that I am constantly striving to improve.  I confess that I am impressed when someone can speak or write with confidence, especially when it comes to doctrines and practices of the church.  That’s why I continue to take college classes each year.</p>
<p><strong>Choosing to believe</strong></p>
<p>But I’d like to take exception with one of the common threads I find in the essays on sites like <a title="MormonThink.com" href="http://www.mormonthink.com/">MormonThink.com</a>.  It has to do with choosing to believe.  The concept of voluntary or involuntary belief has been discussed by philosophers for millennia.  But it’s such a basic part of how I deal with the sort of intellectual issues on Mormon Think that I want to share it with you.</p>
<p>I disagree with those who contend that beliefs are not voluntary acts of will.  There is no doubt in my mind that I am a <a title="About.com Beliefs and choices" href="http://atheism.about.com/od/philosophyepistemology/a/BeliefChoice.htm">voluntarist</a> when it comes to my beliefs about the church and our history.  This is especially true in light of, or in spite of all the fascinating historical facts that I have read over the years that are just not taught to or even known by the majority of the Latter-day Saints.</p>
<p>Invariably I have found that those who label themselves atheists also claim to be involuntarists.  I am coming to the conclusion that those who embrace the title of Ex Mormon, Post Mormon or Former Mormon also see their position as involuntary.  “It was inevitable,” they say, “based on what I have learned, I had no other choice but to now disbelieve what I had formally believed.”</p>
<p><strong>Encouraging Faith</strong></p>
<p>Well, that’s where we differ.  I have spent many years studying the same material that has been so troubling and bothersome to so many of my fellow seekers of knowledge.  I can honestly say that my faith has been strengthened and my belief deepened that <a title="Visions of Joseph Smith" href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/the-visions-of-joseph-smith/">Joseph</a> was who he claimed to be – a prophet of God &#8211; and that the <a title="The Book of Mormon brings us to Christ" href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/the-book-of-mormon-brings-us-closer-to-christ/">Book of Mormon</a> is what it claims to be – Holy Scripture.</p>
<p>I have no doubt that there are many in the church, who, if they studied the same material we have written about on our blogs and websites, would be absolutely freaked out and would soon leave the church.  They are either social Mormons only or are not strong in their desire to know more about the history of our church.  I don’t think these kinds of people are your typical Mormons.</p>
<p>What’s missing from sites like <a title="MormonThink.com" href="http://www.mormonthink.com/">MormonThink.com</a>, and what you’ll find in abundance on the official church web sites, is the role of faith, and especially encouraging faith.  There is way too much emphasis on the intellect and not enough focus on feelings.  The section on <a title="Testimony and Spiritual Witness" href="http://www.mormonthink.com/testimonyweb.htm">Testimony and Spiritual Witness</a> relegates the role of feelings of faith as something to be dissected and derided.</p>
<p><strong>Announcing new website</strong></p>
<p>That’s reason why I decided to start my own website, <a title="LatterdayCommentary.com" href="http://www.latterdaycommentary.com/">LatterdayCommentary.com</a>.  This blog is hosted on that domain, which I registered years ago.  It’s not much to look at today.  In fact, I almost consider it a prototype.  I’ve put together some commentary and links to my essays on some of the same subjects that you will find on <a title="MormonThink.com" href="http://mormonthink.com/">MormonThink.com</a>.  It will grow with time.</p>
<p>I know that I’m just one of thousands of LDS members who have a website where they share their beliefs and testimonies of the restored gospel of Jesus Christ.  I like to think that I’m not much different from your average Mormon.  I grew up as a member of the church but I come from a convert family.  And my viewpoint is definitely that of a laid-back California boy.</p>
<p>I’ve been happy as a member of the LDS Church all my life.  I loved my mission and I love going to the temple.  I love General Conference and I love serving in a local Bishopric.  I hope you’ll take a look at <a title="LatterdayCommentary.com" href="http://www.latterdaycommentary.com/">my website</a> and then come back here and make some suggestions as to how I can make it better and more useful in promoting the doctrines of our LDS faith to the world.</p>
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		<title>Shades of Grey and relative truth</title>
		<link>http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/shades_of_grey/</link>
		<comments>http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/shades_of_grey/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sun, 28 Jun 2009 02:32:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Tim Malone</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[American Religion]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Anti-Mormons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[boldness]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Book of Mormon]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Cognitive dissonance]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Contention]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Controversy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Costa Rica mission]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Criticism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[DAMU]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Disaffected Mormons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Dissent]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Doctrine]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Doubt]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Ex-Mormons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[First Vision]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Former Mormons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[God]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Gospel knowledge]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Heavenly Father]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Holy Ghost]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Intellectuals]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Joseph C. Muren]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Knowledge]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[LDS Church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Middle ground]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Missionary stories]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Modern Revelation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mormon culture]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mormon Origins]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mormonism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mormons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[New Order Mormons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[One true church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Only true church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Personal Revelation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Post-Mormons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Relative truth]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Revelation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Shades of Grey]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Sharing the Gospel]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Spirit of the Lord]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Spiritual Experiences]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Spiritual Knowledge]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Testifying]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Testimony]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[True Church]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/?p=406</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In 1978, civil war broke out in Nicaragua, just after I left the country. My Mission President went from Costa Rica to Managua to help the missionaries get out of the country.  As he was literally leaving the chapel where he &#8230; <a href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/shades_of_grey/">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a title="President Muren Family" href="http://www.3tcm.net/PresMurenFamily.jpg"><img class="alignleft size-thumbnail wp-image-411" title="presmurenfamily" src="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/presmurenfamily-150x150.jpg" alt="presmurenfamily" width="150" height="150" /></a>In 1978, civil war broke out in <a title="Nicaragua" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicaragua">Nicaragua</a>, just after I left the country. My <a title="Mission President" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Mission_President">Mission President</a> went from Costa Rica to Managua to help the missionaries get out of the country.  As he was literally leaving the <a title="Chapel" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Chapel">chapel</a> where he had told the missionaries to gather, the <a title="Sandinistas" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sandinista">Sandinistas</a> came running in from the other door and stopped them.</p>
<p>Demanding to know what side of the conflict they were on, <a title="Joseph C. Muren" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_C._Muren">President Muren</a> responded with the phrase, &#8220;tonos de gris,&#8221; which means shades of grey.  He did not stop but kept going right out the door and was able to get that group of Elders out of the country.  Gratefully, all the <a title="Missionaries" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Missionaries">missionaries</a> eventually made it safely out.</p>
<p><strong>Social or Cultural Mormons</strong></p>
<p>Can a person be a member of the <a title="Mormon" href="http://www.mormon.org">LDS faith</a> and not believe some of the <a title="Doctrine" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Doctrine">doctrine</a> or accept the <a title="Church History" href="http://www.lds.org/churchhistory/history">official story</a> of the <a title="Mormon History" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Mormon_history">history</a>?  Absolutely!  We call them social or <a title="Cultural Mormons" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Mormon">cultural Mormons</a> and there are countless numbers of them within the church.  Many of these kinds of members come from multi-generation <a title="Mormon Pioneers" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Mormon_Pioneers">pioneer</a> LDS families.</p>
<p>If you survey an average <a title="Mormon meetings" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Mormon_meetings">congregation</a> in the LDS faith, you will find that there are a surprising number who just don’t care about some of the doctrine and care even less about the history.  They are there because it is their family tradition and they derive satisfaction from the social interaction among good people that they know.</p>
<p><strong>Looking for the middle ground</strong></p>
<p>They feel uncomfortable when they hear <a title="Loyalty" href="http://lds.org/conference/talk/display/0,5232,23-1-353-21,00.html">statements</a> from their leaders that the <a title="LDS Church" href="http://www.lds.org">LDS church</a> is either the <a title="Kingdom of God" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Kingdom_of_God">kingdom of God</a> or it is nothing.  When someone says that <a title="Joseph Smith" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Joseph_Smith">Joseph Smith</a> was either God’s <a title="Mormon Prophet" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Prophet">prophet</a> or he was a great fraud, they feel unfairly pressured to have to put their view of the man in such black and white terms.</p>
<p>Isn’t there some <a title="There is no middle ground" href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/there-is-no-middle-ground/">middle ground</a> where good people can participate in the Mormon faith without having to take sides about Joseph Smith, the <a title="Book of Mormon" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Book_of_Mormon">Book of Mormon</a>, the idea of <a title="Angels" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Angels">angels</a> visiting Joseph and the concept of <a title="Priesthood Keys" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Keys_of_the_Priesthood">priesthood keys</a> and <a title="Authority" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Authority">authority</a>?  There is so much good in the church.  Why does it have to be classified as <a title="True and Living Church" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/True_and_Living_Church">true</a>?</p>
<p><strong>The American Mormon culture</strong></p>
<p>There are many members of the LDS church who do not fit the stereotypical image of <a title="US Conservatism" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conservatism_in_the_United_States">conservative</a>, <a title="Orthodoxy" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthodoxy">orthodox</a>, <a title="Republican" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republican_Party_(United_States)">Republican</a>, <a title="White Collar" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White-collar_worker">white-collar</a>, <a title="All American" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All-American_(disambiguation)">all-American</a> family.  The church membership is actually quite diverse, especially as one travels outside the confines of the <a title="Intermountain West" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermountain_West">Intermountain West</a> where the church flourished and is the strongest.</p>
<p>Culturally, as a church and a people, we seem to have become stagnated in the mindset of the <a title="19th Century" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/19th_Century">19th century</a> view of <a title="Mormonism" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormonism">Mormonism</a> that still conflicts with the outside world.  The church is growing beyond the <a title="Mormon corridor" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mormon_Corridor">Mormon corridor</a> but is experiencing a sort of consolidation in the traditional strongholds of the faith – the center of <a title="Zion" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Zion">Zion</a>.</p>
<p><strong>The one true church</strong></p>
<p>Many good people who recognize this cultural myopia and <a title="Parochialism" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Parochialism">parochialism</a> that exists within the LDS faith have expanded their views and horizons beyond the <a title="Mores" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mores">mores</a> and restraints of the traditional, orthodox Mormon <a title="Worldview" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Worldview">worldview</a>.  There are so many good people out there that are doing great things to serve their local communities.</p>
<p>Because these <a title="Progressive Christianity" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_Christianity">progressive</a> thinking people have expanded their views they have come in contact with different ways of thinking about the <a title="Religious Experience" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Religious_experience">religious experience</a> and about their own Mormon upbringing.  The idea of belonging to <a title="One true church" href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/the-only-true-and-living-church/">the one true church</a> has come to be offensive and difficult, if not impossible to defend in their minds.</p>
<p><strong>God’s chosen people</strong></p>
<p>They see and are embarrassed by what appears to be a contest of <a title="Right and wrong" href="http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&amp;locale=0&amp;sourceId=4bd89209df38b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&amp;vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD">right and wrong</a> between our zeal as <a title="Every member a missionary" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Every_Member_a_Missionary">a missionary church</a> and the good people who are not already a part of the elect kingdom of God.  Whereas previously they were uncomfortable with a perceived <a title="Exclusivism" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exclusivism">exclusivist</a> approach, they now are adamant that we are wrong.</p>
<p>We are <a title="Judgemental" href="http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&amp;locale=0&amp;sourceId=2d0584d4a0a0c010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&amp;vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD">judgmental</a>, they cry.  Why can’t we accept everybody else just the way they are?  Why are we trying to <a title="Convert" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Convert">convert</a> people when they are already happy and doing much good in their own faith?  The idea of rules for membership becomes chafing.  Why does the church have such high <a title="Standards of strength" href="http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&amp;locale=0&amp;sourceId=347e7264d3b9c110VgnVCM100000176f620a____&amp;vgnextoid=024644f8f206c010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD">standards</a> that drive people crazy?</p>
<p><strong>Pointing out the flaws and faults</strong></p>
<p>A large percentage of the LDS membership either does not know or does not care about some of the <a title="Troubling issues" href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/general-authority-training-advanced-subjects/">troubling issues</a> of our early history and growth as a church.  It is frustrating to progressive thinkers that so many within the faith are not as well versed as they are on these issues and the supposed quandaries that they present.</p>
<p>So they become more vocal and <a title="Strident" href="http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/strident?rdfrom=Strident">strident</a> in pointing out the flaws and faults of the church and its leaders, both historical and current.  Their frustration increases when their audience either shrugs its collective shoulders or ignores their efforts to educate them on the problems that they see in the church.  How can they not care?</p>
<p><strong>Many faithful members do know</strong></p>
<p>While there are many who don’t know and don’t care, there are just as many who are very knowledgeable in the issues and problems that are troublesome to our <a title="Liberalism" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberalism">liberal minded</a> members.  It’s just that we have found answers within our own hearts and minds many years ago that satisfy the potential <a title="Cognitive dissonance" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance">cognitive dissonance</a>.</p>
<p>We quietly go about our lives, secure and confident in the knowledge that we have found answers for the most important elements of our faith.  We invite others to taste of the peace that comes from knowing that there are answers and that there are many solid and bedrock truths upon which we can build our lives and our faith.</p>
<p><strong>Raise a warning voice</strong></p>
<p>For some reason, when we try to share our <a title="Certainty" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Certainty">certainty</a> about the truths we have found, we are sometimes misunderstood to be <a title="Arrogance or hubris" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hubris">arrogant</a> or presenting our faith as superior or more complete than theirs.  Yes, if you invite someone to share in your happiness then you are presenting what you have found to be of great worth.</p>
<p>This is a difficult task to perform.  We are commanded to <a title="Declare the truth" href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/75/1-5#1">raise our voices</a> to let the world know of the events pertaining to <a title="Church history chronology" href="http://scriptures.lds.org/chchrono/contents">the founding of our church</a>.  We have been asked to <a title="Warn your neighbor" href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/88/81#81">be bold</a> in declaring that God has called <a title="Prophets" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Prophet">prophets</a> in our day and that he has sent <a title="Angels" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Angels">angels</a> to ordain and teach truths that have long been lost from the world.</p>
<p><strong>Some truths are not relative</strong></p>
<p>And thus we arrive at the heart of the conflict between orthodox conservative Mormons and progressive liberal Mormons.  What is <a title="Truth" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Truth">truth</a>?  Can one say with any degree of certainty that they have found the best and most complete source of truth without excluding the many other sources of truth that are found in the world?</p>
<p>Truth is reality. Some kinds of truth can only be received through <a title="Revelation" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Revelation">revelation</a>. I have never seen God or Jesus. I was not there when Joseph received the <a title="First Vision" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/First_Vision">First Vision</a>. So for me to be able to know those facts, they have to be revealed to me by the <a title="Holy Ghost" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Holy_Ghost">Holy Ghost</a>.  Some truths are either <a title="Mystery of Godliness" href="http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=6946">revealed of God</a> or they <a title="McConkie - relationship with God" href="http://speeches.byu.edu/reader/reader.php?id=6843">remain unknown</a>.</p>
<p><strong>Truths received by revelation</strong></p>
<p>The five pillars of the <a title="LDS Testimony" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Testimony">LDS testimony</a> require revelation: God lives, Jesus is the Christ, the Savior called Joseph as a prophet, the <a title="Book of Mormon" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Book_of_Mormon">Book of Mormon</a> was brought forth by the <a title="Joseph has done more..." href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/135/3#3">gift and power of God</a> and the church that Joseph established is authorized of God to administer the <a title="Ordinances" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Ordinances">ordinances of salvation</a> that God requires.</p>
<p>Without <a title="Revelation" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Revelation">revelation</a> from the <a title="Holy Ghost" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Holy_Ghost">Holy Ghost</a> we can’t say that we know these things. It’s just not logical. I have studied the Book of Mormon and the Church that claims to be God’s only church authorized to administer the ordinances of salvation. With revelation from the Holy Ghost I can say I know they are what they claim to be.</p>
<p><strong>Summary and conclusion</strong></p>
<p>In some things in life, it is wise to take a position characterized by my Mission President’s <a title="Missionaries and Sandinistas" href="http://www.3tcm.net/CivilWar.htm">response to the Sandinistas</a> – shades of grey.  We do not always know all the facts of some situations and should withhold judgment until a later time.  However, in some critical matters, we must take a position and know for ourselves.</p>
<p>It takes work and determination to obtain knowledge about the five pillars of an LDS <a title="Testimony" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Testimony">testimony</a>.  But I, and millions of others over the years, can say with great certainty that God does reveal knowledge about himself and his prophets to those who diligently seek it.  This revealed knowledge does not come in shades of grey.</p>
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		<title>There is no middle ground</title>
		<link>http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/there-is-no-middle-ground/</link>
		<comments>http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/there-is-no-middle-ground/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 23 Jun 2009 07:15:43 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Tim Malone</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Angelic visatations]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Angels]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Answers to prayer]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Anti-Mormons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Authority]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[boldness]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Book of Mormon]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Burning of the bosom]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Cognitive dissonance]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Criticism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[DAMU]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Disaffected Mormons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Doubt]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[eternal marriage]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Ex-Mormons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[First Vision]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Former Mormons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Gospel knowledge]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Gospel Study]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Holy Ghost]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[honest search]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Intellectual study]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Keys of the Kingdom]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Knowledge]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[LDS Doctrine]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[life after death]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Marriage]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Middle ground]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Modern Revelation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mormon Doctrine]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mormonism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mormons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Moroni 10:4]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Only true church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Opposition]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Personal Revelation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Plural Marriage]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Post-Mormons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[President Hinckley]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Purpose of Life]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Revelation]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Spirit of the Lord]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Spirit world]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Spiritual Experiences]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Spiritual Knowledge]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Temple marriage]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Temples]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Testimony]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[True Church]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Visions]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/?p=397</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[In the priesthood session of the April 2003 General Conference, President Hinckley delivered a landmark address on the subject of loyalty.   In his remarks he said, “Each of us has to face the truth of the matter—either the church is &#8230; <a href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/there-is-no-middle-ground/">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img class="alignleft size-thumbnail wp-image-398" title="preshinckley" src="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/preshinckley-150x150.jpg" alt="preshinckley" width="150" height="150" />In the <a title="Priesthood" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Priesthood">priesthood</a> session of the <a title="April 2003 General Conference" href="http://lds.org/conference/sessions/display/0,5239,23-1-353,00.html">April 2003</a> <a title="General Conference" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/General_Conference">General Conference</a>, <a title="President Hinckley" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Gordon_B._Hinckley">President Hinckley</a> delivered a landmark address on the subject of <a title="Loyalty" href="http://lds.org/conference/talk/display/0,5232,23-1-353-21,00.html">loyalty</a>.   In his remarks he said, “Each of us has to face the truth of the matter—either the church is true, or it is a fraud.  <strong><em>There is no middle ground</em></strong>.  It is the Church and <a title="Kingdom of God" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Kingdom_of_God">kingdom of God</a> or it is nothing.”</p>
<p>An earlier prophet, <a title="Joseph Fielding Smith" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Joseph_Fielding_Smith">Joseph Fielding Smith</a> wrote something similar in the <a title="Doctrines of Salvation" href="http://deseretbook.com/store/product/5020291">Doctrines of Salvation:</a> “<a title="Mormonism" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Mormonism">Mormonism</a>, as it is called, must stand on the story of <a title="Joseph Smith" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Joseph_Smith">Joseph Smith</a>.  He was either a <a title="Mormon Prophet" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Prophet">prophet of God</a>, divinely called, properly appointed and commissioned, or he was one of the biggest frauds this world has ever seen.  <strong><em>There is no middle ground</em></strong>.”</p>
<p><strong>There can be no gray area</strong></p>
<p>Referring to the historical events of the area around <a title="Palmyra" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Palmyra">Palmyra</a>, New York, President Hinckley said: “They either happened or they did not. There can be no gray area, <strong><em>no middle ground</em></strong>.”   In a similar manner, Apostle <a title="Joseph B Wirthlin" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Joseph_B._Wirthlin">Joseph B. Wirthlin</a> said, “Joseph Smith must be accepted either as a prophet of God or else as a charlatan of the first order.”</p>
<p><a title="President Benson" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Ezra_Taft_Benson">President Benson</a> endorsed this all or nothing view.  He said, “Just as the arch crumbles if the keystone is removed, so does all the Church stand or fall with the truthfulness of the <a title="Book of Mormon" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Book_of_Mormon">Book of Mormon</a>…if it can be discredited, the Prophet Joseph Smith goes with it. So does our claim to <a title="Priesthood Keys" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Keys_of_the_Priesthood">priesthood keys</a>, and <a title="Revelation" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Revelation">revelation</a>, and the <a title="Restoration" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Restoration">restored Church</a>.”</p>
<p><strong>They were all wrong</strong></p>
<p>Such black and white statements go all the way back to the beginnings of the <a title="LDS Church" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/The_Church_of_Jesus_Christ_of_Latter-day_Saints">LDS church</a>.  When the prophet Joseph asked God <a title="JS-H 1:18-19" href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/18-19#18">which church he should join</a>, he “was answered that I must join none of them, for <strong><em>they were all wrong</em></strong>.”  If all the churches of Joseph’s day were wrong, what does that say about the numerous churches of our day?</p>
<p>The Lord later said to Joseph in <a title="D&amp;C 1:29-30" href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/1/29-30#29">Section one</a> of the <a title="Doctrine and Covenants" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Doctrine_and_Covenants">Doctrine and Covenants</a> that the church Joseph organized was “the <strong><em>only true and living church</em></strong> upon the face of the whole earth.”  If you look, you can find dozens of similar statements by prophets and apostles throughout the history of our church, all very bold in their declarations.</p>
<p><strong>Divisive and exclusivist</strong></p>
<p>Of course, statements like these are labeled divisive and exclusivist by many people outside our church, but also, increasingly by members on the fringe of the church, also known as the <a title="DAMU" href="http://mormonism.suite101.com/article.cfm/disaffected_mormon_underground">disaffected Mormon underground</a>.  The DAMU is nothing new.  There have been <a title="Cultural Mormon" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Mormon">cultural Mormons</a> and <a title="Jack Mormon" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Mormon">Jack Mormons</a> throughout the history of our church.</p>
<p>Of all the objections to the church that I have encountered over the past few years I have been blogging, this one seems to be the most common and the most offensive.  For some, it is an extremely difficult proposition to accept this black or white, all or nothing approach to <a title="Truth in Religion" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Truth">truth in religion</a>.  I have spent considerable time pondering why this is so.</p>
<p><strong>Good and truth in all religions</strong></p>
<p>Joseph Smith taught that we accept truth from whatever source it may come.  <a title="Joseph F. Smith" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Joseph_F._Smith">Joseph F. Smith</a> said, “We are willing to <a title="Gospel Doctrine, p.1" href="http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&amp;locale=0&amp;sourceId=66a205481ae6b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&amp;vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD">receive all truth, from whatever source</a> it may come; for truth will stand, truth will endure…”  Modern prophets have said that there is much good and truth in all churches and religions.  This statement doesn’t seem too limiting.</p>
<p>President Hinckley: “We recognize the <a title="Good in all churches" href="http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&amp;locale=0&amp;sourceId=c069dbdcc370c010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&amp;vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD">good in all churches</a>. We recognize the value of religion generally. We say to everyone: live the teachings which you have received from your church. We invite you to come and learn from us, to see if we can <em><strong>add to those teachings</strong></em> and enhance your life and your understanding of things sacred and divine.”</p>
<p><strong>Something unique to add</strong></p>
<p>What can the LDS faith add that is unique and will bless the lives of those who accept its teachings?  The most unique thing we offer can be found in the <a title="Mormon temples" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Mormon_Temples">temples</a>.  It is the <a title="Sealing Power" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Sealing#Sealing_Power">sealing power</a> that is exercised to unite families in an eternal bond that will remain in effect after this life is over.  That is an amazing claim that no other church can make.</p>
<p>We teach that the sealing power is a part of the <a title="Priesthood Authority" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Priesthood_Authority">priesthood authority</a> that we claim was delivered to Joseph Smith via angelic messengers.  I don’t know of any other church that asserts that <a title="Angels" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Angels">angels</a> have come and ordained their leaders or conferred upon them <a title="Section 110" href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/110">keys and powers</a> that will <a title="Matt 16:19" href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/matt/16/19#19">bind on earth and in heaven</a>.  That is a fantastic declaration!</p>
<p><strong>Our eternal nature</strong></p>
<p>The older I get, the more important that claim becomes to me.  If I know nothing else, I know that there is a <a title="Spirit body" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Spirit_Body">spiritual side</a> of my existence.  I have had too many experiences of a spiritual nature that have helped me to understand this truth.  Others may claim that there is nothing more to man than skin, muscle and bones, but I believe differently.</p>
<p>Because of that very basic and core fundamental belief about myself, I am concerned about what my <a title="Purpose of life" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Purpose_of_Life">purpose is in life</a> and <a title="Spirit world" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Spirit_World">what happens after death</a>.  I am so grateful to be a part of a community of faith, a church that believes as I do that life is eternal and that what we do with our lives will have a significant impact on the quality of life hereafter.</p>
<p><strong>Importance of the temples</strong></p>
<p>That belief in <a title="John 17:2-3" href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/john/17/2-3#2">life eternal</a> is not unique, but the idea that we can do something to ensure that the relationships we enjoy here continue in the hereafter is very unique indeed.  I have had dialog with visitors to my blog who claim that God would never be so mean as to separate a loving couple who cherished and served each other all their mortal lives.</p>
<p>I’m not going to point you to any <a title="Celestial marriage" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Celestial_marriage">statements from church leaders</a> that teach otherwise but I will say this: before you go making claims about how God should behave, you might want to be absolutely sure of what God has said on the subject.  I can’t think of anything about which I would want to be surer.  My eternal happiness depends on it.</p>
<p><strong>Book of Mormon is still the key</strong></p>
<p>Back to the point of the essay and why prophets have said that there can be <em><strong>no middle ground</strong></em> when it comes to things like authority and revelation and Joseph Smith and the Book of Mormon.  My mother, who was a convert to the church, once said to me that as an investigator, she could accept everything about it except the <a title="Book of Mormon" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Book_of_Mormon">Book of Mormon</a>.</p>
<p>It wasn’t until much later in life when she took an <a title="Institute" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Institute">Institute</a> class on the subject that she really began to understand just how important it is to our claims of divine origin.  I love the fact that we do not have <a title="Gold Plates" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Gold_Plates">the plates</a> to “prove” the historicity of the book.  Prophets have taught that the Book of Mormon is a great sifter of those who are honest in heart.</p>
<p><strong>The power of a divine witness</strong></p>
<p>I know there are those who have said that they have tried and failed to obtain a witness of the veracity of the Book of Mormon.  I have had dialog with people both inside and outside the church who have struggled with this.  I confess that I cannot offer a perfect empathy because <a title="Personal Revelation" href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/a-call-for-more-personal-revelation/">I received a witness</a> of the truthfulness of the book many years ago.</p>
<p>Because of that divine manifestation to me, not just once but <a title="Testimony at Rick's College" href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/a-different-kind-of-religious-education/">on several occasions</a>, I have never doubted the Book of Mormon, or the claims of the prophet Joseph Smith. I understand why the prophets have said that the Book of Mormon is the <a title="Keystone of our religion" href="http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&amp;locale=0&amp;sourceId=50db94bf3938b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&amp;vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD">keystone of our religion</a> and why our claims of divinity rest upon the veracity of that book.  I also agree with the statement that the <a title="Strength of members" href="http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?hideNav=1&amp;locale=0&amp;sourceId=18659209df38b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&amp;vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD">strength of this church is in the testimony</a> of each member.</p>
<p><strong>The promise of personal revelation</strong></p>
<p>One of my evangelical visitors once called this security that I feel, <a title="Burning of the bosom" href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/burning-of-the-bosom-feelings-from-god/">the Mormon bubble</a>.  He says it is not logical but it makes perfect sense to me.  You can throw out all kinds of arguments about the <a title="Book of Abraham" href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/objections-to-the-book-of-abraham/">Book of Abraham</a>, <a title="Plural wives of Joseph" href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/the-plural-wives-of-joseph-smith/">Polyandry</a>, <a title="Post Manifesto polygamy" href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/no-such-thing-as-mormon-fundamentalism/">Post-manifesto plural marriage</a>, the <a title="Kinderhook plates" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Kinderhook_plates">Kinderhook Plates</a> or any one a few dozen other things that can be found on the Internet.</p>
<p>None of them bothered me when I first learned about them and none of them do now.  I have written <a title="General Authority subjects" href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/general-authority-training-advanced-subjects/">essays on dozens of these objections</a> and have come to the conclusion that they really aren’t the real problem with why people doubt or leave the church.  In my opinion, those who struggle with these doubts have not received <a title="Apostasy" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Apostate">personal revelation</a>.</p>
<p><strong>Summary and conclusion</strong></p>
<p>I know that a <a title="Testimony" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Testimony">testimony</a> is a very sacred and personal subject.  I also know that making a generalization like I just did will bring all kinds of protests.  But I stand by it as truth.  If a man has received a <a title="Gift of the Holy Ghost" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Gift_of_the_Holy_Ghost">witness from God</a> that the Book of Mormon is true then God has a responsibility to help that man as he goes through the ensuing <a title="Trials" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Trials">trials</a> of that testimony.</p>
<p>I know that God will help the honest in heart keep their testimonies strong and vibrant.  If we <a title="Gospel Study" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Bible_Study">study</a> we are going to find out things that will test our witness.  We will then have the opportunity to strengthen and deepen it.  That’s what opposition is for.  We do not have to wallow in doubt.  But those who doubt are welcome while they work things out.</p>
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		<title>Spiritual experiences as a foundation for faith</title>
		<link>http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/spiritual-experiences-as-a-foundation-for-faith/</link>
		<comments>http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/spiritual-experiences-as-a-foundation-for-faith/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 09 Jun 2009 01:30:34 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Tim Malone</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Answers to prayer]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Cognitive dissonance]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Controversy]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Critical thinking]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[DAMU]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Disaffected Mormons]]></category>
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		<category><![CDATA[Inactivity]]></category>
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		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/?p=333</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have been intrigued by Blake Ostler’s 2007 FAIR conference presentation entitled, “Spiritual Experiences as the Basis for Belief and Commitment.”  I have read it several times and have decided that Blake is on to something that I would like &#8230; <a href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/spiritual-experiences-as-a-foundation-for-faith/">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><img class="alignleft size-thumbnail wp-image-338" title="josephplates" src="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/josephplates-150x150.jpg" alt="josephplates" width="150" height="150" />I have been intrigued by <a title="Blake Ostler" href="http://www.blakeostler.com">Blake Ostler</a>’s 2007 <a title="FAIR" href="http://www.fairlds.org/">FAIR</a> conference <a title="Blake's essay FAIR 2007" href="http://www.fairlds.org/FAIR_Conferences/2007_Spiritual_Experiences.html">presentation</a> entitled, “Spiritual Experiences as the Basis for Belief and Commitment.”  I have read it several times and have decided that Blake is on to something that I would like to develop further.  As you can see I have modified his title a little bit for use in my essay.  I highly recommend you read <a title="Blake's essay" href="http://www.fairlds.org/FAIR_Conferences/2007_Spiritual_Experiences.html">his essay</a> first.</p>
<p>I’m going to focus on two points he made as he was answering questions towards the end of the presentation.  The first is this: “Memory, and what we do, is changed every time we think about it and remember it.”  The second is this: “All logic is <em>ex post facto</em> to prove what we already feel is true.”  Keep those points in mind as I advance some ideas on my experience with revelation.</p>
<p><strong>Youthful revelatory experiences</strong></p>
<p>Like Blake, I had some remarkable <a title="Revelation" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Revelation">revelatory experiences</a> when I was young that impressed me at the time but have impressed me even more as I have pondered and remembered them over the years.  I have written about them previously, but will list them here to provide some background.  Don’t think that these sacred events were easily obtained or casually absorbed.  They weren’t.</p>
<p>I was taught and believe that we <a title="Cannot live on borrowed light" href="http://www.lds.org/ldsorg/v/index.jsp?vgnextoid=2354fccf2b7db010VgnVCM1000004d82620aRCRD&amp;locale=0&amp;sourceId=9a7e945bd384b010VgnVCM1000004d82620a____&amp;hideNav=1">cannot live on borrowed light</a>.  Throughout my <a title="Seminary" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Seminary">Seminary</a> and <a title="Institute" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Institute">Institute</a> experience, I must have heard dozens of lessons on how vitally important it is to obtain our own <a title="Testimony" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Testimony">witness of the spirit</a> in order to remain committed to the church and the gospel in later years.  My teachers taught me and the spirit confirmed that I could receive <a title="Revelation" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Revelation">personal revelation</a>.</p>
<p><strong>Foundational spiritual events</strong></p>
<p>The first <a title="Rick's College experience" href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/a-different-kind-of-religious-education/">revelatory experience</a> to which I’ll refer was obtained while I was a student at BYU Idaho.  I was seventeen years old and very immature but very impressed with a testimony I had heard that week from an Apostle of the Lord.  That weekend in my room I prayed fervently for many hours to know for myself that what he had said was true and important for me in my life.</p>
<p>The next impressive spiritual event in the development of my testimony was the next year when I was eighteen years old and preparing myself to serve a mission.  I have also shared this one in <a title="Personal revelation" href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/a-call-for-more-personal-revelation/">a previous essay</a>.  The experience was equally as impressive as the first one though it was perhaps deeper in meaning and implication.  These are part of my early foundational spiritual memories.</p>
<p><strong>Deep impact on my faith</strong></p>
<p>These were not my only youthful revelatory experiences.  I have recorded several others in my journals that came almost unbidden during the years before my mission.  Although I received them as a result of prayer, the effort was not as intense.  In other words, I did not pray for many hours or fast for days to obtain the other experiences.  Nevertheless, they were just as powerful.</p>
<p>Because of these events, I was able to go through the difficult and rigorous experience of <a title="My missionary experience" href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/the-teaching-and-testifying-missionary/">serving as a missionary</a> without looking back and wondering why I decided to sacrifice like that for two years.  I had these sacred memories burning in my heart and being added unto with additional everyday assurances from the Lord that I was engaged in his work and that he was appreciative.</p>
<p><strong>Working with imperfect people</strong></p>
<p>Life marches on.  An education is obtained, a <a title="My marriage" href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/the-sacred-power-of-marriage/">marriage</a> is solemnized in the temple, a family is raised and increasing responsibilities in a career and in the church are rewarding and fulfilling.  As sometimes happens, I begin to learn things about my faith, and especially about the people in it that are at first disturbing and then disappointing.  I experience some logical inconsistencies.</p>
<p><a title="Cognitive Dissonance" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cognitive_dissonance">Cognitive dissonance</a> can be a painful experience when it includes people from our world who are in authoritative positions.  For example, a beloved <a title="Bishop" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Bishop">bishop</a> from my youth became inactive after he was released.  How could this happen?  He represented the Lord to me in interviews that I held sacred.  He helped me resolve several youthful problems and encouraged me to be faithful.</p>
<p><strong>Imperfections even at high levels</strong></p>
<p>Another bishop from my youth is disciplined after fiscal improprieties in his business dealings are revealed.  I learn of divorces of people whom I admired, some of whom were influential in my youth.  I then begin to learn of difficulties in higher levels of the church – stake presidents who lose their testimonies and announce to their congregations that they are leaving the faith.</p>
<p>A <a title="George P Lee" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_P._Lee">promising general authority</a> is excommunicated for breaking the law of chastity.  I discover that an <a title="Richard R. Lyman" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_R._Lyman">apostle was excommunicated</a> for this very same reason less than forty years earlier.  How is this possible – a modern apostle excommunicated?  I can understand it happening in the early days of the church but not in our day and age.  These are men of God.  Tell me this wasn’t so!</p>
<p><strong>Sacred things exposed and mocked</strong></p>
<p>I discovered that a former ordinance worker in the temple had recorded the temple ceremony and then published it.  How could he do that?  I hold the temple sacred and have enjoyed so many wonderful experiences there over the years.  What could cause him to lose his faith and reveal something that means so much to me?  Did he never have any spiritual experiences of his own?</p>
<p>From the earliest days of the church there have been those who have not been impressed with the sacred nature of the temple and have exposed things that they have covenanted to keep sacred.  In our day there are those who claim to have received the <a title="Second Annointing" href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_anointing">second anointing</a> and then describe it on the message boards of those who hate the church.  Something’s not right with this picture.</p>
<p><strong>Not all members receive revelation</strong></p>
<p>I used to think that everybody in the church had spiritual experiences similar to those I enjoyed in my youth.  Over the years, I have come to realize that this is not the case.  Can that be true even for those who have served as bishops, <a title="Stake President" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Stake_President">stake presidents</a> or even <a title="General Authority" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/General_Authority">general authorities</a>?  In my opinion, yes &#8211; personal experience has shown this to be so.  Not all members receive revelation.</p>
<p>That has been an amazing thing for me to contemplate.  Was I just extremely lucky or blessed to believe that I could receive revelation when I was so young?  Several visitors to my blog over the years have tried to convince me that I did not receive revelation.  They have suggested that what I experienced was a form of self-hypnosis, or simply the effect of a frenzied, emotional state.</p>
<p><strong>Memories can be enlarged</strong></p>
<p>Back to Blake’s two points, memory first.  I have come to realize that although my early spiritual experiences occurred nearly thirty-five years ago, they are clearer in my mind now then when I first experienced them.  The combination of pondering them and writing about them has helped me to understand that there was much more detail in the experiences than what I first thought.</p>
<p>As Blake pointed out in his essay, this helps me to understand why Joseph Smith could recount the same <a title="First Vision" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/First_Vision">First Vision</a> experience differently in <a title="Multiple accounts of First Vision" href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/multiple-versions-of-the-first-vision/">each of the accounts</a> he relates over the years.  I was so focused on determining my own standing before God in my first youthful manifestation that I had overlooked how deeply and powerfully the Lord spoke to me about missionary labors.</p>
<p><strong>How to explain all this</strong></p>
<p>Blake’s second point was that all logic is created to prove what we already feel is true.  I have had prima facia experiences that overrule any logical inconsistencies I have encountered in what I have learned about the history and people of this church as I have studied it in more depth.  In effect, I have not really experienced cognitive dissonance at all because the spiritual trumps logical.</p>
<p>Let me restate that.  My spiritual revelatory experiences with the Holy Ghost early in my life have proven to be so powerful that it seems that no matter what kind of troubling things I may learn about the men who run or have run this church, I feel inoculated and immune to their effect.  My evangelical friends call this “living in the protective Mormon bubble of a testimony.”</p>
<p><strong>Summary and conclusion</strong></p>
<p>My experiences with the <a title="Holy Ghost" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Holy_Ghost">Holy Ghost</a> are not going to be the same as yours.  They may be similar or they may be completely different.  For me, these revelatory events in my youth have provided a foundation for my experiences in this church thus far.  I have encountered much imperfection and weakness in the men who run it, but the spiritual witnesses of my life have protected me.</p>
<p>The bottom line is that I continue to believe that the <a title="LDS Church" href="http://www.lds.org">LDS Church</a> is what it claims to be when it was setup through the prophet Joseph Smith <a title="Organization of the church" href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Organization_of_the_Church%2C_1830">in 1830</a>.  The simple fact is that we can know this for ourselves through revelatory encounters with the Holy Ghost.  No matter what negative things I discover, nothing can overcome the strength of that personal witness if I remain worthy.</p>
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<p>Note about the illustration: This artist&#8217;s conception of Joseph translating the <a title="Book of Mormon" href="http://www.mormonwiki.com/Book_of_Mormon">Book of Mormon</a> is one that is highly criticized by some members of the church.  They feel it is disingenuous because it does not show Joseph using the <a title="Seer stone in a hat" href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/seer-stone-in-a-hat-book-of-mormon-translation/">seer stones in the hat</a>.  It also shows the plates in plain view of Oliver which was not the case.  Joseph was not to show them to anyone unless commanded of the Lord.</p>
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		<title>Mormons: Ex, Post, Anti and New-Order</title>
		<link>http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/mormons-ex-post-anti-and-new-order/</link>
		<comments>http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/mormons-ex-post-anti-and-new-order/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Sat, 27 Sep 2008 01:55:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Tim Malone</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Anti-Mormons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Ex-Mormons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Former Mormons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Mormons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[New Order Mormons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Post-Mormons]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/?p=173</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Do you occasionally visit anti-Mormon websites? I do. Every few months I Google Mormon, Mormons, Mormonism, LDS, Latter-day Saints and Latter day saints. Note the slight variations in the search terms. You get different results with each one. I just &#8230; <a href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/mormons-ex-post-anti-and-new-order/">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_PQ20a3fjz14/SN2S70H5MuI/AAAAAAAAAmY/5NG-SR3YMV4/s1600-h/PostMormon.jpg"><img style="margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; float: left; cursor: pointer;" src="http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_PQ20a3fjz14/SN2S70H5MuI/AAAAAAAAAmY/5NG-SR3YMV4/s200/PostMormon.jpg" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5250514296885555938" border="0" /></a>Do you occasionally visit <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-Mormon">anti-Mormon</a> websites?  I do.  Every few months I Google <a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&amp;q=Mormon&amp;btnG=Google+Search&amp;aq=f&amp;oq=">Mormon</a>, <a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&amp;q=Mormons&amp;btnG=Search">Mormons</a>, <a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&amp;q=Mormonism&amp;btnG=Search">Mormonism</a>, <a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&amp;q=LDS&amp;btnG=Search">LDS</a>, <a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&amp;q=Latter-day+Saints&amp;btnG=Search">Latter-day Saints</a> and <a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&amp;q=Latter+day+saints&amp;btnG=Search">Latter day saints</a>.  Note the slight variations in the search terms.  You get different results with each one.  I just love the new <a href="http://www.google.com/help/features.html">Google feature</a> which brings up the most popular search terms as you type.  That provides valuable information.</p>
<p>I am intensely interested in how the online community finds information on <a href="http://www.lds.org/">the church</a> and our people.  The searches have improved dramatically over the past year since <a href="http://latterdaycommentary.blogspot.com/2007/09/what-yet-another-lds-news-site.html">I started blogging</a>.  After you <a href="http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&amp;q=Mormon&amp;btnG=Google+Search&amp;aq=f&amp;oq=">Google Mormon</a>, click on <a href="http://video.google.com/videosearch?hl=en&amp;q=Mormon&amp;oe=UTF-8&amp;um=1&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;sa=N&amp;tab=wv&amp;oi=property_suggestions&amp;resnum=0&amp;ct=property-revision&amp;cd=1#">Video</a>, <a href="http://news.google.com/news?hl=en&amp;q=Mormon&amp;oe=UTF-8&amp;um=1&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;sa=N&amp;tab=wn&amp;oi=property_suggestions&amp;resnum=0&amp;ct=property-revision&amp;cd=2">News</a> or <a href="http://blogsearch.google.com/blogsearch?hl=en&amp;q=Mormon&amp;oe=UTF-8&amp;um=1&amp;ie=UTF-8&amp;sa=N&amp;tab=wb&amp;oi=property_suggestions&amp;resnum=0&amp;ct=property-revision&amp;cd=3">Blogs</a> to find a world of information that just didn’t exist a few years ago.  It’s a miracle.  Really, it is.  But is it helping or hurting?</p>
<p>For example, in the news today under Mormon we find that the <a href="http://www.firstdallas.org/About/DrRobertJeffress.html">Reverend Robert Jeffress</a>, pastor of the <a href="http://www.firstdallas.org/">First Baptist Church of Dallas</a>, once again called <a href="http://www.sltrib.com/ci_10566940">Mitt Romney a cult member</a>.  He must have gotten so much mileage out of that statement <a href="http://latterdaycommentary.blogspot.com/2007/10/news-flash-mitt-romney-is-mormon.html">the last time he used it</a> when Mitt was running that he decided to try it again.  Doesn’t he realize that Mitt Romney is no longer the hot news topic?</p>
<p><span style="font-weight: bold;">Recovery from Mormonism</span></p>
<p>Today I paid another visit to one of the sites that continues to remain on the front page of any Google search for Mormon or Mormonism – the <a href="http://www.exmormon.org/">Recovery from Mormonism</a> forum.  In there I discovered that <a href="http://latterdaycommentary.blogspot.com/2008/09/excommunication-is-just-not-worth-it.html">Flat Lander’s disciplinary council</a> has been delayed until after the Nov election.  Readers are having a field day with this one.  It’s so sad to read some of the comments there.</p>
<p>If you have read any of the stories on the RfM site you may ask why I would go there or spend any amount of time there.  Yes, many of the letters and comments are poorly constructed and filled with anger but in just a few minutes you can find common themes.  I find it helpful to <a href="http://latterdaycommentary.blogspot.com/2008/04/five-kinds-of-non-mormons.html">understand where ex-Mormons are coming from</a> as many of them write comments on my blog.</p>
<p>The most common theme is deception.  Many who write there report that they just didn’t know certain things about church history and were <a href="http://latterdaycommentary.blogspot.com/2008/05/new-mormon-history-grant-palmer.html">shocked when they discovered them</a>.  That to me is clear evidence of a need to teach our history better.  Our youth and new converts need a friend who can help them deal with the warts that they will discover.  We all know that they exist.</p>
<p><span style="font-weight: bold;">Post-Mormon</span></p>
<p>Compared to the Recovery from Mormonism site, <a href="http://www.postmormon.org/exp_e/">Post-Mormon</a> is a relatively new site, but is gaining in popularity.  With 569 posts, you can also see that <a href="http://www.postmormon.org/exp_e/index.php/discussions/viewthread/10798/">Flat Lander</a> is not the “<a href="http://signingforsomething.org/blog/?page_id=770">High Priest in good standing</a>” that he claims to be.  I’m not saying that participating in Post-Mormon makes you an apostate, but it’s clear that his problems with the church began long before <a href="http://latterdaycommentary.blogspot.com/2008/07/why-church-is-involved-in-prop-8.html">Prop 8</a>.</p>
<p>If you live in the <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intermountain_West">Intermountain West</a> you may have seen their billboards.  I noticed some on a recent trip to Utah and looked them up when I got to a computer.  The site is professionally done and seems to be well run.  I’m sure many of you know a lot more about those who run this site.  It is registered to <a href="http://www.kjzz.com/news/cafe/28240649.html">Jeff Ricks</a> out of Logan, Utah.  You can read more about him in the <a href="http://www.deseretnews.com/article/1,5143,660221881,00.html">Deseret News</a>.</p>
<p>The tenor of letters and comments on Post-Mormon is mostly a step up from what you’ll find on RfM, but not much.  There are still many that write for shock value, and seek sympathy for their particular case.  Each exit story is unique, but again, all seem to have a common theme of loss.  The result is a loss of faith through a perceived deception or some offense, real or imagined.</p>
<p><span style="font-weight: bold;">Anti-Mormons</span></p>
<p>Labels in general are not good because they are never accurate or precise enough or even fair.  However, the term <a href="http://www.fairlds.org/Anti-Mormons/Street_Preachers.html">anti-Mormon</a> has been around a long time so I’m going to stick with it.  For the most part, I find anti-Mormon sites to be run by Christian ministries, as opposed to former Mormons.  This is not always true, but most of them focus on bringing Mormons to Christ.</p>
<p>I like that.  We all need to <a href="http://jesuschrist.lds.org/SonOfGod/eng/">focus more on Christ</a>.  I love the comments I receive from those who are working hard to remind me that true religion, at least the Christian religion, is centered on <a href="http://eom.byu.edu/index.php/Gospel_of_Jesus_Christ">the gospel of Jesus Christ</a>.  When I engage in dialog with someone from one of these sites, I am almost always delighted to conclude the dialog with a new-found friend as we talk of Christ.</p>
<p>Two of the most popular online ministries to the Mormons are CARM and MRM.  I have <a href="http://latterdaycommentary.blogspot.com/2008/04/matt-slick-and-fall-of-adam.html">written about CARM previously</a> and have enjoyed my dialogs with Matt Paulson, who seems to be the most active in reaching out to people like me.  Take a look at the <a href="http://www.mrm.org/">Mormonism Research Ministry</a>, especially this: “<a href="http://www.mrm.org/about/arent-you-just-bunch-biased-and-hateful-bigots-who-have-nothing-better-do-persecute-mormons">Aren’t you just a bunch of biased and hateful bigots who persecute Mormons?</a>&#8220;</p>
<p><span style="font-weight: bold;">New Order Mormons</span></p>
<p>I’ve <a href="http://latterdaycommentary.blogspot.com/2008/05/researching-lds-church-on-internet.html">written about New Order Mormons previously</a>, but wanted to mention them again.  One might be tempted to categorize them in with the Ex-Mormons and Post-Mormons, but I keep them separate because they do not advocate leaving the <a href="http://www.mormon.org/">Mormon Church</a>.  Their focus is on helping those who no longer believe the doctrine to remain a part of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Latter_Day_Saints">the LDS community</a>.</p>
<p>Another unique thing I like about the <a href="http://www.newordermormon.org/">NOMs</a> is that they introduced me to an idea that was just totally foreign to my way of thinking growing up in the Mormon Church – that it’s OK to doubt.  Now don’t go thinking I’ve lost my testimony because I haven’t.  It’s just that I never imagined that you could be a Mormon and not believe the doctrine.  They call it being a <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Mormon">cultural Mormon</a>.</p>
<p>If you survey your own ward, I am confident that you will find several regular members who are cultural Mormons.  They come to church regularly or semi-regularly but just aren’t interested in the doctrine.  They come because they were raised in the church or their spouse participates and it contributes to a happier marriage.  They probably don’t even know that they are NOMs.</p>
<p><span style="font-weight: bold;">Summary and Conclusion</span></p>
<p>Some may be offended that I have written about these sites that provide an alternative voice to the official LDS church point of view.  It is not my attention to offend.  <a href="http://latterdaycommentary.blogspot.com/2008/03/answering-critics-of-lds-faith.html">Alternative views are a fact of life</a>, especially in today’s Internet society.  Our kids and grand kids know all about these sites and it should not be a shock that they exist.  We can’t hide our heads in the sand.</p>
<p>You may feel that this is doing the Church a disservice by bringing light to these sites.  I disagree.  I have always felt that <a href="http://latterdaycommentary.blogspot.com/2008/06/benefits-of-lds-blogging.html">opposing viewpoints are good</a> and that we can learn from everyone, no matter how much we may feel they are wrong.  It has been my experience that those who create and write on these sites really just want to be understood and accepted.</p>
<p>The <a href="http://latterdaycommentary.blogspot.com/2007/12/sharing-gospel-using-new-media.html">gospel is being spread through the Internet</a> in a big way these days.  Almost everyone turns to the Internet after being first introduced to the church by a friend or by the missionaries.  It behooves us to know what they will find and be prepared to answer their questions.  Besides, you might learn something that will strengthen your faith in what you will find.  I know I have.</p>
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<p>Note: Post-Mormon billboard courtesy of Jeff Ricks, but without specific permission</p>
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		<title>Five kinds of non-Mormons</title>
		<link>http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/five-kinds-of-non-mormons/</link>
		<comments>http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/five-kinds-of-non-mormons/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 17 Apr 2008 03:24:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Tim Malone</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Anti-Mormons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Ex-Mormons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Post-Mormons]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/?p=107</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You may be familiar with the hilarious 5 Kinds of Mormons from Robert Kirby, illustrated by Pat Bagley. But not as many people remember the next essay in their 1995 classic, Sunday of the Living Dead. It is, of course, &#8230; <a href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/five-kinds-of-non-mormons/">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_PQ20a3fjz14/SAbOLaI1NlI/AAAAAAAAAcE/AbpYWVeFXq0/s1600-h/RobertKirby.jpg"><img style="margin: 0pt 10px 10px 0pt; float: left; cursor: pointer;" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_PQ20a3fjz14/SAbOLaI1NlI/AAAAAAAAAcE/AbpYWVeFXq0/s200/RobertKirby.jpg" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5190062315981321810" border="0" /></a>You may be familiar with the hilarious <a href="http://www.mudrow.org/Herb/FKM1.html">5 Kinds of Mormons</a> from <a href="http://www.sltrib.com/columnists">Robert Kirby</a>, illustrated by <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pat_Bagley">Pat Bagley</a>.  But not as many people remember the next essay in their 1995 classic, <a href="http://www.amazon.com/Sunday-Living-Dead-Robert-Kirby/dp/1885628498">Sunday of the Living Dead</a>.  It is, of course, the 5 Kinds of non-Mormons.  Kirby mentions it in his essay in <a href="http://www.dialoguejournal.com/">Dialogue</a>, <a href="http://www.dialoguejournal.com/excerpts/36-2b.asp">Confessions of a Modern Day Mobber</a>.  However, he doesn&#8217;t share them there and I can find them nowhere on the Internet.</p>
<p>I happen to have the book and it is one of my favorites.  I will quote from but not share the essay in detail.  I believe a man should be paid for his work. For many LDS, Kirby is the only reason they ever visit the <a href="http://www.sltrib.com/">Salt Lake Tribune</a> website.  The five kinds of non-Mormons are Ignorant Nons, Tolerant Nons, Irked Nons, Furious Nons and Rabid Nons.  <span style="font-weight: bold;">Ig-nons</span> know utterly zip about Mormons and aren&#8217;t interested in knowing more.</p>
<p><span style="font-weight: bold;">Tol-nons</span> think Mormons are quaint but nice and relatively harmless.  They don&#8217;t care what Mormons do with them after they are dead so long as they leave them alone while they&#8217;re alive. Like Ig-nons, <span style="font-weight: bold;">Irk-nons</span> know relatively zip about Mormons.  The difference being that Irk-nons <span style="font-style: italic;">think</span> they know everything.  Fur-nons are not interested in live-and-let-live with Mormons.</p>
<p>To the <span style="font-weight: bold;">Fur-nons</span>, Mormons are wrong, wrong, wrong.  If you&#8217;ve got sixty seconds, and even if you don&#8217;t, Fur-nons will tell you all about Adam/God, polygamy, Danites, Mountain Meadows and whatever the latest hot anti-Mormon issue happens to be.  <span style="font-weight: bold;">Rab-nons</span> cry that anything even remotely connected with Mormonism is out-and-out evil.  Most ex-Mormons are found in the Fur-non and Rab-non categories.</p>
<p><span style="font-weight: bold;"><u>Opposition in all things</u></span></p>
<p>Those familiar with the <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/bm/contents">Book of Mormon</a> recognize this line from <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/2_ne/2/11,15#11">Father Lehi&#8217;s teachings</a> to his son Jacob.  I confess that even after a relatively full life, I still struggle with the logic behind this one.  Lehi teaches that righteousness could not be brought to pass if there were no opposition.  I guess without opposition, we would not have a real choice in the most important things in life.</p>
<p>For example, if we did not have the choice to believe that nothing is real unless you can prove it with empirical evidence then how could we ever learn to exercise faith?  What is faith if it is not believing in <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/alma/32/21#21">things that are not seen but are nevertheless true</a>?  We have a choice to accept that there are simply some things that we cannot prove, because we do not know enough about them.</p>
<p>Lehi teaches us in that <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/2_ne/2/17-18#17">an angel of God fell from heaven</a> and became a devil, &#8220;having sought that which is evil before God.  And because he had fallen from heaven, and had become miserable forever, he sought also the misery of all mankind.&#8221;  He seeks our misery by opposing all the good things our Heavenly Father wants for us.  He presents tantalizing and appealing choices.</p>
<p>We should not be surprised that the devil would be opposed to everything that the LDS Church stands for.  The Lord has established His Kingdom and has asked us to help build it up in these latter days.  Our involvement in furthering His work is opposed by the adversary and he will do everything he can to prevent us from participating in that process of building and strengthening.</p>
<p><span style="font-weight: bold;"><u>Post Mormons, Ex-Mormons and Anti-Mormons</u></span></p>
<p>I can&#8217;t imagine anybody who knows anything about the church not being aware that there are those who oppose it.  Just as the church is taking advantage of the miracle of the Internet and the Web, those opposed to the church have found a medium that facilitates and lengthens the reach of their message. The anti-Mormon sites far outnumber those that are pro-Mormon.</p>
<p>We know that the adversary makes his work appealing, else why would we desire it or find it attractive?  The idea of a website where you can discuss negative things about the church at first seems exciting.  Wow!  There is a place where you can complain about all the things about being a member of the church that bug you.  The other people in the forums are so sympathetic.</p>
<p>Soon the novelty wears off and you go from simply complaining to actively seeking to spread doubt and discontent.  You look for new ways to spin the old lies that have been around for as long as the Church has been established.  The websites are so appealing and exciting.  The spin on most of these sites is that it is good to vent your frustrations and explore your feelings.</p>
<p>Like pornography, these websites that claim they are only there to help you ease your transition out of Mormonism are very addictive.  It is so easy to move from a &#8220;Post Mormon&#8221; experience to an Ex-Mormon point of view and finally to an anti-Mormon stance.  For those who thrive on the feedback from peers, the large and spacious building just took on a whole new meaning.</p>
<p><span style="font-weight: bold;"><u>Safely navigating the waters</u></span></p>
<p>Some people first start to visit the anti-Mormon sites out of curiosity.  Perhaps they are naive and have been sheltered in a faithful LDS home all their lives but are now on their own away at college.  Others are converts that have recently discovered that there is another side to what they were taught by the missionaries when they were baptized.  Why didn&#8217;t they know about these things first?  They feel deceived and wonder what else they weren&#8217;t told earlier.</p>
<p>Let&#8217;s face it, you&#8217;re not going to read some things about the controversial subjects in LDS doctrine, practice and history from the official sources.  You won&#8217;t find blood atonement referenced on <a href="http://www.lds.org/">lds.org</a> except as it pertains to the blood of the Savior.  The Adam-God theory is not discussed there, nor is Mother in Heaven or any works from Grant Palmer or D. Michael Quinn.  Signature books is not a favorite among the Brethren.  I&#8217;m sure you can imagine why.</p>
<p>Visiting some of these sites can be dangerous for those who do not have a sure and solid foundation in the gospel of Jesus Christ.  The points being made by those recently disenchanted with the church can be so interesting.  How was Mark Hoffman able to fool the leaders of the church into believing that his forgeries were real?  The answer to that question deserves a future post.  DNA evidence of the American Indians sure was a shocker to some, wasn&#8217;t it?</p>
<p>Yes, there must be opposition in all things and you can find it in abundance on the Internet without looking too long or hard.  Will seeking out, reading these opposing viewpoints and then discussing them with others strengthen or weaken your testimony?  Will your commitment to the gospel increase or decrease as you ponder the words of those who have left the church or  have been excommunicated?  You want to know about these things but can you handle them?</p>
<p><span style="font-weight: bold;"><u>Seek out the positive blogs and sites</u></span></p>
<p>This is my 100th essay since I started writing about the Church six months ago.  A day hasn&#8217;t gone by in which I haven&#8217;t thought and prayed about what I am going to write next.  I&#8217;m the kind of learner that needs to be able to explain things for myself.  Like many of you, I have  spent many hours visiting the websites of those who oppose the work of the Lord.  As I have written before, I have yet to find anything that hasn&#8217;t already been addressed and answered.</p>
<p>I started this blog to help motivate me to regularly study the gospel.  I think I took my inspiration from Elder Bednar when he described the different methods that can be employed to study the scriptures.  I have been a chronological reader for far too long.  I had made many attempts over the years to gather my resources by topic.  I have several file cabinets full of material that served me well as a seminary teacher and high council speaker over the years.</p>
<div style="text-align: left;">Paper files deteriorate after awhile.  Some of my earliest papers from my seminary days are ready to crumble to dust.  I like to think that the Internet will be around for a long time to come, and probably long after I am dead.  I want to leave a legacy after I am dead and gone that my grandchildren can look to and say, &#8220;Grandpa sure knew the gospel, didn&#8217;t he?&#8221; I can make sure they know of my love but I may not be able to teach them all I know until they are more mature.</div>
<p>I love the gospel of Jesus Christ as taught in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.  It is rich and deep.  There is so much that can be learned from the official sources of the Church.  But because we know there is opposition in all things and because we know the purpose of that opposition, I am convinced that we can also learn from opposing viewpoints.  I hope you don&#8217;t think me a heretic, but it strengthens my testimony to answer some of this anti-Mormon stuff.</p>
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		<title>Answering critics of the LDS faith</title>
		<link>http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/answering-critics-of-the-lds-faith/</link>
		<comments>http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/answering-critics-of-the-lds-faith/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Mon, 31 Mar 2008 15:17:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Tim Malone</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Anti-Mormons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Criticism]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Ex-Mormons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Public Affairs]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/?p=99</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I have long been torn between two approaches to dealing with critics of our faith. I&#8217;m not sure if it is a good idea to answer their allegations or to simply ignore them. I guess it depends on how much &#8230; <a href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/answering-critics-of-the-lds-faith/">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a onblur="try {parent.deselectBloggerImageGracefully();} catch(e) {}" href="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_PQ20a3fjz14/R_Ehmz5ybiI/AAAAAAAAAZo/hDjAUmNRDEo/s1600-h/InDefenseOfTruth.jpg"><img style="margin: 0pt 0pt 10px 10px; float: right; cursor: pointer;" src="http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_PQ20a3fjz14/R_Ehmz5ybiI/AAAAAAAAAZo/hDjAUmNRDEo/s200/InDefenseOfTruth.jpg" alt="" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5183961596731485730" border="0" /></a>I have long been torn between two approaches to dealing with critics of our faith.  I&#8217;m not sure if it is a good idea to answer their allegations or to simply ignore them.  I guess it depends on how much their charges bother us.  The official response of the Church seems to have changed over the years in direct proportion to the number of articles published in the media that are false or misleading.</p>
<p>At one time we were much quieter and less responsive.  Things that I thought were outrageous and slanderous were met with not a peep.  Other things that I thought were obvious and petty elicited responses that seemed over-reactive and condemning.  Today, things are more even, measured and, in a word, professional.  I am no authority on the subject but I like the image Public Affairs presents to the world today.</p>
<p>There are many great websites out there that are doing an excellent job of answering the critics.  In reality, you can&#8217;t provide answers that will satisfy those who don&#8217;t believe there are answers.  We can only offer responses and correct information in an attempt to provide honest seekers of truth with facts that they can evaluate for themselves. <a href="http://latterdaycommentary.blogspot.com/2007/12/sharing-gospel-using-new-media.html">Elder Ballard has asked</a> for more faithful members of the Church to share the truth about the gospel on the Internet and the new media.</p>
<p><span style="font-weight: bold;"><u>The best websites for LDS answers</u></span></p>
<p>Of course the best site is <a href="http://www.lds.org/">lds.org</a>.  It offers a tremendous resource of excellent material including conference talks, magazine articles, official curriculum, complete online scriptures, and links to hundreds of other official LDS sites.  In my opinion the best resource for answers to difficult questions can be found in the <a href="http://newsroom.lds.org/">LDS Newsroom</a> which I have used extensively in my recent posts.</p>
<p>Don&#8217;t discount <a href="http://mormon.org/">Mormon.org</a>.  While the focus is on providing support material for the missionary discussions and therefore lacks depth, you can&#8217;t go wrong in using the answers found there.  The church web team went to a lot of work to present the wonderful content and videos.  You will also want to be sure to visit <a href="http://www.jesuschrist.lds.org/">JesusChrist.lds.org</a> for excellent articles and videos on the Savior.</p>
<p>I can only mention a few others here.  I have compiled a more complete list on the sidebar of this blog that I use extensively in my research. The <a href="http://www.moregoodfoundation.org/">MoreGood foundation</a> is always worth visiting as are <a href="http://www.fairlds.org/">FAIR</a> and <a href="http://www.shields-research.org/">Shields</a>.  Even though there are so many others, I must mention the extensive work that <a href="http://mormanity.blogspot.com/">Jeff Lindsay</a> has done over the years on his <a href="http://www.jefflindsay.com/LDSFAQ/index.html">LDS FAQ</a>.  It has always been extremely helpful.  I gave up my work in this area long ago because Jeff was doing such an awesome job.</p>
<p><span style="font-weight: bold;"><u>Answers to some basic allegations</u></span></p>
<p>In the past week I have responded to six common criticisms of those who are opposed to the work of the church.  They were conveniently presented as a comment to my Easter post, &#8220;<a href="http://latterdaycommentary.blogspot.com/2008/03/are-mormons-christians.html">Are Mormons Christian</a>?&#8221;  The objections were offered by an anonymous reader so I imagine there was no real desire for a response.  An intelligent dialog requires that the participants at least identify themselves.  A respectful exchange invites understanding for each other&#8217;s viewpoints.</p>
<p>1. <a href="http://latterdaycommentary.blogspot.com/2008/03/god-is-glorified-being-of-flesh-and.html">God is a glorified being of flesh and bones</a><br />2. <a href="http://latterdaycommentary.blogspot.com/2008/03/doctrine-of-spiritual-brotherhood.html">The doctrine of spiritual brotherhood</a><br />3. <a href="http://latterdaycommentary.blogspot.com/2008/03/book-of-mormon-brings-us-closer-to.html">The Book of Mormon brings us closer to Christ</a><br />4. <a href="http://latterdaycommentary.blogspot.com/2008/03/authority-to-act-in-name-of-god.html">Authority to act in the name of God</a><br />5. <a href="http://latterdaycommentary.blogspot.com/2008/03/why-cant-i-attend-mormon-wedding.html">Why can&#8217;t I attend a Mormon wedding?</a><br />6. <a href="http://latterdaycommentary.blogspot.com/2008/03/practice-of-plural-marriage.html">The practice of plural marriage</a></p>
<p>In my experience there are two kinds of critics that we cannot help.  There are those who are convinced that their zeal in attacking us is providing a service to God and others who they want to impress.  Then there are the apostates and ex-Mormons who want only to justify their actions.  They will go to any length to make sure that everyone knows how hurt they have been by some real or imagined offense. I wish there was something we could do to ease their pain.</p>
<p><span style="font-weight: bold;"><u>Dealing with anti-Morman literature</u></span></p>
<p>I often reflect upon the words of Elder Bruce R. McConkie as he spoke about anti-Mormon literature.  He said he would sometimes read it for entertainment value and nothing more.  I suspect that he may have read it on occasion more for intellectual stimulation.  I used to have an extensive collection of books that were not flattering to the LDS faith.  I would refer to them in an effort to understand what our critics were saying and how they saw things.</p>
<p>For some reason the fact that I had such a collection came up in an interview with a good Stake President.  He counseled me to dispose of it.  I did so long ago and have not missed it especially since so much of the same material can be found today on the Internet with a simple search.  You do not have to go far to discover that there is still much animosity and false interpretations of our history and doctrine available to the public in thousands of anti-Mormon websites.</p>
<p>We do not shy away from the difficult questions if the seeker is legitimately wanting to know the answers.  For some questions there are no answers.  For others, the answer depends on the maturity of the individual asking the question or repeating the allegation that they have read elsewhere.  If you are sincere in wanting to understand something about our faith or doctrine I am more than happy to point you to some answers that have helped me over the years.</p>
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		<title>The only true and living church</title>
		<link>http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/the-only-true-and-living-church/</link>
		<comments>http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/the-only-true-and-living-church/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Fri, 21 Mar 2008 20:33:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<dc:creator>Tim Malone</dc:creator>
				<category><![CDATA[Ex-Mormons]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Faithfulness]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[Testimony]]></category>
		<category><![CDATA[True Church]]></category>

		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/?p=90</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[For some reason, I landed on the forums at MormonApologetics.org the other day. Oh, I remember. I got there from FAIR, which I occasionally visit just to see what&#8217;s new. There are two major LDS forums which I like to &#8230; <a href="http://latterdaycommentary.com/blog/index.php/the-only-true-and-living-church/">Continue reading <span class="meta-nav">&#8594;</span></a>]]></description>
			<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><a href="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_PQ20a3fjz14/R-R2Fj5ybVI/AAAAAAAAAYA/YKNTRiQRbZE/s1600-h/Transfiguration.jpg"><img style="MARGIN: 0px 10px 10px 0px; FLOAT: left; CURSOR: hand" id="BLOGGER_PHOTO_ID_5180395309291957586" border="0" alt="" src="http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_PQ20a3fjz14/R-R2Fj5ybVI/AAAAAAAAAYA/YKNTRiQRbZE/s200/Transfiguration.jpg" /></a>For some reason, I landed on the forums at <a href="http://www.mormonapologetics.org/">MormonApologetics.org</a> the other day. Oh, I remember. I got there from <a href="http://www.fairlds.org/">FAIR</a>, which I occasionally visit just to see what&#8217;s new. There are two major LDS forums which I like to visit: The <a href="http://www.lds.net/forums/">LDS.net forums</a>, part of the <a href="http://www.moregoodfoundation.org/">MoreGood Foundation</a> and MormonApologetics. The latter is the more wild and woolly debate board. Be careful if you post there and are expecting to be treated with kid gloves. That won&#8217;t happen.</p>
<p>Now there are other discussion boards that are frequented by members and ex-members but I won&#8217;t link to them. I don&#8217;t know why I even mention them but hey, it&#8217;s a fact of life that if you are a member of the Church and you use the Internet then you have probably found them before. They are about as unavoidable as your basic anti-Momon site, of which there are hundreds. A popular one is The Foyer and another is PostMormon. There are many others.</p>
<p>The reason I brought this up is because I wanted to respond to one of the recent threads on MormonApologetics. So why don&#8217;t I post my comments there? Well, this is my blog and I write my essays here. That&#8217;s why. The entry that prompts today&#8217;s essay is from a recent convert who writes that he is struggling with the concept of the <a href="http://www.lds.org/">Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints</a> being <span style="color:#ff0000;">the only true church</span>. He wonders why we say that. He says that it feels arrogant.</p>
<p><strong><u>The scriptural source of the doctrine</u></strong></p>
<p>Section one of the Doctrine and Covenants is the Lord&#8217;s preface to the book. It was given in November of 1831 after 65 previous sections had been received. In verse thirty, the Lord declares that the Prophet Joseph Smith was given &#8220;&#8230;power to lay the foundation of this church, and to bring it forth out of obscurity and out of darkness, <span style="color:#ff0000;">the only true and living church upon the face of the whole earth</span>, with which I, the Lord, am well pleased&#8230;&#8221; (<a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/1/30b">D&amp;C 1:30</a>)</p>
<p>Add to that scripture the testimony of Joseph Smith as he recorded what the Savior said to him in the First Vision received in 1820. He asked which church he should join. &#8220;I was answered that <span style="color:#ff0000;">I must join none of them, for they were all wrong</span>; and the Personage who addressed me that all their creeds were an abomination in his sight; that those professors were all corrupt.&#8221; That&#8217;s a fairly harsh condemnation of all other churches, isn&#8217;t it? Did the Lord really say that?</p>
<p>I believe he did. I have no reason to doubt the boy Prophet&#8217;s recollection and testimony of what happened on that beautiful Spring morning so long ago. True, he was but fourteen years of age when he received the visit. It is also true that this account in <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/js_h/1/19#19">Joseph Smith History 1:19</a> was dictated to a scribe some eighteen years after the fact. We know that the Lord speaks to men according to their understanding and knowledge. Joseph was impressed to use those words.</p>
<p><strong><u>What the other churches are missing</u></strong></p>
<p>So in what way are other churches wrong? And don&#8217;t we teach that we invite others to join us bringing with them all that is good and right with their beliefs? Of course we do. But in what sense can we claim, and we do, that we are the only true church upon the face of the earth? In priesthood keys, my friends, in <span style="color:#ff0000;">priesthood keys</span>. Why this point escapes so many is beyond me. It is such a basic claim and such a fundamental tenant of our religion. How can you miss it?</p>
<p>I hope it doesn&#8217;t bother you when someone gets up in testimony meeting and says, &#8220;I know this church is true. I know it is the only true church.&#8221; What more can you say when you hear that? The person is sharing a witness borne of the spirit that they know for themselves that what Joseph claimed and taught was true. He did indeed <a href="http://scriptures.lds.org/en/dc/110/11#11">receive the keys of the kingdom</a> from John the Baptist, Peter, James, John, Moses, Elias and Elijah. <span style="color:#ff0000;">This is what makes our church true</span>.</p>
<p>We are not trying to be arrogant. We are not trying to say that we are better than anyone else. We are only saying that if you want to receive the ordinances of salvation from an authorized representative of Jesus Christ, then we offer them to you. If the Savior taught that we need to be baptized by one having his authority, and he did, then I would hope that a true follower of Jesus Christ would want to be sure that an authorized representative performs the ordinance.</p>
<p><strong><u>Conclusion and why this matters</u></strong></p>
<p>This is basic doctrine. It is not new. I cannot understand why someone would leave this church, no matter what the reason, when they know that this is true. It doesn&#8217;t matter who offends you. It doesn&#8217;t matter that the members aren&#8217;t perfect. It should not matter that the bishop or the Stake President or the General Authorities are not perfect. It should not matter that we are not perfect. All that matters is that we receive the ordinances and remain true and faithful.</p>
<p>Why is that so hard?</p>
<p>&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8211;</p>
<p>Update: Read what a modern prophet had to say about the subject.  President Henry B. Eyring delivered a wonderful discourse on the subject of <a href="http://lds.org/conference/talk/display/0,5232,23-1-851-7,00.html">The True and Living Church</a> at General Conference in April of 2008 just a few weeks after I wrote this essay. Note especially his discussion of keys, and ordinances and sealing power, all fundamental parts of the true church.</p>
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