Remnant Family Reunion Controversy / Apology

Rock_Waterman_SayingsI must apologize here for the tone of the questions in my April 15th, 2015 post. As someone pointed out in another blog, written words can seem cold. We don’t see each other’s facial expressions, body language, or eyes. We don’t hear each other laugh. I wish I could write more like Rock, in that warm, conversational way. He’s the undisputed master of that comfortable style, in my book.

Perhaps I’ve spent too many years drafting legal arguments to the US Patent and Trademark Office Examining Attorneys – a cold-hearted crew. My mentor was a talented intellectual property attorney whom I respected. I valued his relentless editing of my work to search out and replace any emotion. So I do acknowledge that my words can seem clipped and cold. There is no need for warm expansion in legal writing, but there was here. What I intended to convey was deep concern from a position of love, but I missed that mark and caused considerable contention among a body of friends with whom I hope to be reunited someday in true community. Please forgive me.

beedanceI thank Marti for her sweet and vulnerable description of the honeycomb dance and her part in bringing that forth. As she described it, I felt that even I, too, would like to join in that simple physical outpouring of love and joy dedicated to God. She shed light on something which I, and many others, obviously misunderstood. For that, I am sincerely grateful to her. If you haven’t read her description about how the Utah version of the honeycomb dance came to be, I hope you’ll wade through the comments section of the questions post and do so. However, please understand that whatever The Lord creates, Satan copies and corrupts. There are other Asenath dance versions out there, of which I have personal knowledge, and which are absolutely pagan. It was another version, from a personal message to my Facebook account, which generated my rhetorical questions.

Descriptions of the honeycomb dance costumes, head jewels, moonlight dancing on the mesa, the presence of a mother entity and the cloud/moon signs in the night sky came directly from Samantha Corbridge and her daughters when their family visited me and my husband in our Orem home on Thanksgiving eve. Bret and my husband Ron were in the room. So no, I didn’t just make all that up, as I have been accused of doing. Bret sent me a detailed email about his planned events and activities a few days before he sent them out to any of the other speakers. So yes, I did know what was in the works, and it was not merely guesswork on my part.

I expected personal attacks for daring to ask uncomfortable questions, but was surprised by the anger, outrage and identity of some of the attackers.

I paraphrase someone in another group who wisely commented: “We can see ourselves doing to each other here exactly what the church has done to us by telling us to shut up and sit down, saying it’s fine to have questions, but certainly NOT fine to talk about them or post about them on the internet because they might cause some people to actually listen and consider those questions as being possibly valid. That’s a very familiar accusation to those who have been excommunicated recently.

We may not all agree with each other but that doesn’t make any of us an authority on the writer’s thoughts or reasons for posting the questions. But isn’t asking questions what got us to where we are right now? And sometimes, unless someone else poses the question, it never even crosses our minds to ask, let alone take such a question to The Lord. People who are willing to ask hard questions can cause us to think about things we hadn’t considered before, and that is absolutely worthwhile. Disagreeing is fine, and often produces productive discussion. Attributing motive to [and attacking] the person asking the questions is where we should all take issue.”

At this writing, four days after the original post, there are nearly 2,000 views, 120 comments and 200 Facebook shares on this site alone. So there are evidently a few others besides me who care about the issues raised in the questions. To therefore dismiss all this discussion as “silly” and something that will now please just fade quietly off into the sunset tells us all (in a warm conversational way) to just shut up and sit down.

As usual, Log, a master of synopsis, waded through all the angst and anger in the comments section of the original questions post and pinned it to the real issue in his brief comment on April 17, at 11:38 pm.

For me, it all boils down to this:

Is Bret Corbridge actually a prophet of God who speaks personally with Christ? Does he organize all things pertaining to this gathering under the direction of Christ? He says publicly that he does.

RemnantFamilyReunionIf this is true, then I need to repent, get on board, do whatever I can possibly do within my own sphere of influence to advertise and promote it, get myself over to the Remnant Family Reunion to show love, solidarity and support for the emerging Zion family, and do the honeycomb dance with my sisters.

Or is he a delusional, hallucinogenic individual who thinks he talks with Christ, but actually doesn’t? If so, wouldn’t I want to warn the people I care about so they don’t get hurt? This option seems extremely unlikely to me, since Bret Corbridge is a respected, credentialed family therapist in the business of identifying and detangling delusions in other people.

Another possibility is that we’re ALL delusional here on Tim’s blog, none of this stuff even really matters since Thomas S. Monson is the only true and living prophet on earth with all the keys – if we follow him he will never lead us astray, the call to gather will come in general conference, and Zion is a bank. That option also seems extremely unlikely to me, since the LDS church is currently in the business of creating, maintaining and enforcing delusional thinking.

But what if Bret actually IS conversing with someone who comes self-identifying as Christ and directs all the efforts of this gathering, but is not really Jesus Christ? Could this be the rush (to gather) to the pass that Denver talks about, where the man who would not wait is destroyed by the beast? In that case, my brother Bret, whom I love, is in a deadly situation and many people whom I care about could likewise be destroyed by following him into that pass.

I remember Denver saying that there WILL be a gathering, but “if some great man wants to put his name on it, then I will not gather.” Bret has worked very hard to stay in the background as, he calls himself, merely the facilitator of this event. However, by publicly quoting verbatim the words of Christ to him to organize the event and instruct others to gather, by picking the “sacred” mesa venue, by choosing the speakers and doing most of the groundwork to get the gathering off the ground, then in my mind, Bret Corbridge has essentially put his name on it.

If Denver Snuffer is a prophet, and I believe he is, then Denver’s comment about what kind of gathering he specifically WILL NOT attend has relevance to me, and generated my question to Bret about whether or not Denver was invited. The exact answer was no, he would be a distraction, and had in fact rebuked Bret.

I’m a writer, Bret’s a writer. We tend to use language with some precision. So the word “rebuke” then, also has some relevance in my mind, and generated another of my original questions.

ProphetJosephSmithJoseph Smith said he talked to Christ, and I believe him. That belief gave me a framework for life. Denver Snuffer says he talks with Christ, and I believe him. That belief frames my current life choices as I value the perspective of one who delivers a message from Christ.

Bret Corbridge says that he talks personally with Christ who leads this gathering. In my mind that would, should, make The Remnant Family Reunion holy.

I care, therefore, to determine if Christ is at the helm and actually conversing with Bret Corbridge as His messenger, or if Bret is delusional, or a pathological liar, or if Bret is talking to a counterfeit Christ. The Remnant Family Reunion was never represented as merely a social gathering by Bret, who provides the direct words he received from Christ in the information packet.

I get it that some people here just want to go to a good party, and basically don’t care whether or not Bret is on the Lord’s errand. But I care deeply, since that has been represented to be the case, just as I care deeply to know that Denver is on an errand from the Lord and is not just freelancing with his own agenda.

Whenever someone says, in effect, “Thus saith the Lord God” as Bret has done by publicly quoting Christ relative to the Colorado gathering, then in my mind that moves the whole gathering out of a good time party place and into a sacred space – a consecrated ramp up to Zion.

There should be deep reflection, pondering (questions) and prayer about how God views The Remnant Family Reunion. Nobody else was asking questions, so I did. I know that my tone could have been softer. I’m sorry you didn’t feel my love and concern, and you didn’t know how sometimes I cry myself to sleep at night thinking about all this, about you, praying for you all, loving you all.

There were some uncomfortable questions people should have been asking at the front end of Jonestown, Waco and Manti – the same kind of questions people need to ask about Denver Snuffer or any other man who says publicly that he talks with Christ and delivers a message to us from Him.

I’ll end here and move on now to other things in my life with this quote from my friend Tim Malone in his preface to my original questions post of April 15, 2015:

“I have prayed to know God’s will…. God wanted this posted.”

22 thoughts on “Remnant Family Reunion Controversy / Apology”

  1. Lynne,

    You thank you for your humble exposition on this important and sensitive matter. I think you are wise to put the question as you have done as to whether or not the source of what Bret has done is directly from the Lord’s own mouth (not merely by inspiration) as Bret has claimed. [I would like you to clarify, did Bret testify to you that Christ has appeared to him to direct him in this effort?]

    I too was struck by what Bret wrote in the reunion packet (as an aside, whether any believe this or not, I truly wish no ill for Bret or his family–I wish him all of God’s blessing). I have encountered a number people in times past who carried with them what I believe to be a familiar spirit, claiming certain direct divine communication and manifestations, and yet I was persuaded after time, observation, and reflection that the source of their gifts, communications, and manifestations were not of God–at least in the balance. The only thing I could say after reading Bret’s words was that they carried a similar familiar spirit. That was my sense. Though I did feel that Bret is entirely sincere, yet, I was not persuaded by the source of his inspiration and by the methods he employed in his language. There is a subtle manipulation he employed, although I would doubt he is did that knowingly. I suspect that this paragraph may stir the ire of some, something I don’t intend, yet that was my sense.

    That said, I readily admit that I do not consider myself adept with discernment. I don’t trust myself to know hardly anything and I admit, on this issue I could be terribly wrong. I sincerely hope for the sake of all who believe this event and Bret are being directed by God, that I am wrong.

    I would add that I have been stunned how so many people in this “remnant” movement (a rather presumptuous title in my view) seem so certain of their abilities to “know” what God is telling them–especially when the “testimonies” born and the “knowledge” imparted are so widely divergent on the very same topics. I guess I shouldn’t be surprised because we’ve all come from a Mormon culture blindly steeped in certainty and pregnant with pride. Life and tragedy have revealed to me just how much I do not know; just how weak I am; that “man is nothing” something I had never before fully supposed.

    We might well ask ourselves when someone writes in a post or comment, “the Spirit has revealed to me” or “I’ve earnestly prayed for the Lord permission and he’s given it to me” or “God has revealed to me” such and such: why the use of such language?

    When a true messenger comes to deliver a message, (this is my observation, and I could understand this incorrectly, but this is how I view it at present) they announce the source of their message and authority because they were commanded to do so: “We are true messengers of the Lord Jesus Christ”, or “I Moroni am a messenger sent from the presence of God”. The Lord has specifically commanded that messenger to declare their errand and the source of their authority. Joseph Smith has done this. Denver has done this. It appears Bret has done this.

    So, when any of us makes use of the “spirit has told” me imprimatur, have we thoroughly examined our motives before employing that language? Are our hearts perfectly pure, or are we hoping that by using that language, it will add weight to our message? Should not our words utilize only persuasion, kindness, gentleness and pure knowledge? Are we using persuasion when we say “God has revealed to me” (a more passive use of the phrase “thus saith the Lord”) without being told to do so?

    We are so quick to declare the word of the lord. Should we not first seek to truly obtain that word–in its fulness, before we dare to even lift our eyes to heaven, wielding our “testimonies” like a prod, a wedge, or a hammer?

    For those going to the reunion, and for those abstaining, I wish the Lord’s blessings on all.

  2. Love you Lynne. I know my posts can come off harsh-sorry bout that. I was not happy with a lot of the posts I saw……
    I had a sense that you had prayed about things and out of concern you posted your questions. I agree that it can be hard to know all of the background information and plus not everyone has the gift of communication-I know I don’
    Take care

  3. There is a line that now has been crossed.

    Up until this time, the Lord has required me to remain silent and just watch with sadness and disbelief.

    It has been very difficult to watch you promote your distortions and misinterpretations Lynne.

    It has been difficult to watch you misrepresent my wife and cause contention with people I love.

    I do appreciate you playing this necessary role and the Lord has allowed it to help us all search our hearts in a deeper way.

    Now that you insist on continuing to promote darkness and doubt, I believe the Lord will allow me to make a statement of truth tomorrow. But in the end, this will have nothing to do with Bret Corbridge, and everything to do with the Lord Jesus Christ.

    Shame on us all, for taking our eye off of Him, and entering into the same contentions and strife that afflicted the original Saints. This entire experience is a microcosm of why we have so far to go.

    Tomorrow, I will state what the Lord directs me to say, then the naysayers and fault-finders will continue on in creating enmity, they will have their day, and the heavens will again weep at the continued ignorance of mankind.

    But for me and my house, this drama will end, and we will continue onward in serving the Lord.

    Bret Corbridge,

    1. Thank you Bret for responding. I sincerely appreciate the opportunity to hear from you directly, as opposed to others opinions of you.

    2. “Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.” Matthew 5:19

  4. Or, it could be that all actors in this drama are wrong together. There have been 600 schisms from the main LDS body over the year, led by SCORES of individuals who have claimed to be led by revelation via divine voices, angels, and the Lord Himself. All of these have come to naught. What is the real source of these communications? Each must choose for oneself. Remember the fundamentalist groups who grow over the decades antagonistic to other groups and within their groups, and this often ends in murderous violence. Can this be Christ? Can this be Charity? Can this be a manifestation of the Truth? Is it possible that the main trunk of the LDS Church still has SUFFICIENT authority to help lead us safely back to our heavenly home? Is it possible that there just isn’t sufficient strength in the members to bring about Zion at this time?

    1. It is sad that these accusations had to be made public. Aren’t we supposed to speak with the individual that we have issue with privately first and not in a public forum?

      1. Adam, from what I gather-in this case-is that she did talk to them personally and I don’t want to assume anything else. I want to share some thoughts and I want you to know I am Not personally attacking you and I apologize if my efforts to express myself fall short or confusing….I already admitted in my previous post on this blog I am not the best communicator..

        okay, I know of the counsel in the D&C that anyone with an issue needs to go to that person….Soooooo, do you want to know the countless blog posts, and other comments I have seen on the world wide web where people are taking issue with a person who has a leadership calling in the church or just a regular person?? How many of them actually sought to talk to that person. Some have and some may have attempted but other circumstances may have occurred. However, I know from personal experience that the contact just doesn’t happen. I know that some people have taken issue with what I have said..did they try and contact Me…NO they did not but made several posts complaining about what I said. I also know that I have been stabbed in the back so many times but has anyone ever contacted me to discuss their issue?? NO!!! I see where Mormons use the scriptures for some point they want to make but only follow what they want!
        I noticed that someone “disliked” my comment above…..really?? Out of the comments I made on the other 2 blogs about this “get-together”?? So admitting communication isn’t a strong suit and expressing oneself online can be difficult and that I didn’t like some posts….LOL….Gee, I apologize to that person who disliked my comment. Please let me know what is was in that comment do follow the counsel Adam gives here. How many people totally took sides and made a shit-storm and I bet the comments made in groups about this was “really filled with understanding, compassion, and love unfeigned” for Lynne…right?!?!?! I truly apologize to everyone anywhere that I have offended for whatever reason it was. I really try to forgive and have a love for all mankind.
        I was going to make more comments about somethings, but I leave it at this for now….I also apologize to anyone who takes issue with this comment….

  5. And I will add that it is all very entertaining, but downright eerie to see the number of bloggers lining up behind DS, and quoting the exact same scriptures, using the same vocabulary, etc. including Tim Malone here. I don’t think I heard anyone ever use the word “parse” more than a couple of times in the past 50 years; now that DS uses it, scores of DS followers start using it regularly, for one example. Or, for example one blogger wrote: “this was in the Lord’s heart all along,” referring to his getting the boot out of the church in his trial. That’s funny, seems like that’s the EXACT language DS used in reference to his treatment by the Church. Makes one think.

  6. Could it be that the LDS church never had any more authority than any other earthly institution and anyone could go to God without the aid of men or dependence on an institution since the beginning? Hmmm.

    Seems to me like a lot of people play pick your prophet and bet on him instead of becoming the prophets they seek for themselves. I hope to God that millions are personally being lead by Jesus Christ, because those are the only people who will enter Zion. Those who play pick the prophet and listen to the middle man messenger won’t get the message.

    Coming out of the LDS church is so very difficult because of the brainwashing that has been done. Most turn into atheists, and others seek another idol or system that has “the fulness.” They cannot cope with the idea that no system, no group, no individual can show you the way.

  7. Marti Grobecker

    There are many prophets in the land. For instance I believe one of the most important and significant men on the earth today is Jonathan Cahn, a Messianic Jew who is calling all of America to repentance. The revelations that God has given him relating to the holy days and 9/11, the Shemitah, etc. are quite incredible. I believe God uses whomever will listen to him and whomever will be humble and willing to be a “fool” in the eyes of others. Are we not also to be prophets and prophetesses?

    Lynne, thank you for your apology. And Lynne, no sarcasm intended, the costume you describe is blue skirts and white blouses …

    The damage that has been done is great. I’m not talking about the damage to my credibility, but the damage done by many in order to discredit another. Only God truly knows our hearts and motives, but our actions are recorded in heaven, and we are accountable for all acts that cause others pain. I don’t disagree that Tim was told to post Lynne’s questions for I believe this has been an exercise to see if we would rush to make judgments, or restrain ourselves and ponder and pray and allow the Lord to guide our words. It has been a very hard but needful exercise to see our standing before the Lord … whether we will allow others to receive communication from the heavens, or whether we rush to discount the experiences of others. And as stated many times, our relationship with God is individual and all we need to do is ask God whether we should attend something or not … I’m sure I would not want to go to a “hell on wheels Sturgis Biker meeting” but if God told me to, then I would assume there was something I needed to experience, or a lesson I needed to learn, or maybe a person I needed to meet. But should I condemn Denver for going to that kind of meeting and assume he was going there in order to drink and party and raise hell with all the other bikers and that he is seriously deceived for doing so?

    So here we are again – rehashing whether Bret and Sammy are delusional. I for one believe they are “fools for the Lord”, which means that are willing to put themselves on the line and do what the Lord says even though others believe otherwise. I have known them for a long time and Jesus Christ is foremost in all they do. Last week I woke-up with the voice “IT IS ENOUGH” and I cannot deny that it was Jesus speaking to me. Does that make me delusional that Jesus would speak to me? Doesn’t he speak to everyone?

    We all at times experience deception, but through the experience of deception we learn great and valuable lessons. I do not believe Bret and Sammy are deceived. This whole reunion has nothing to do with trying to create a Zion community. It is all about gathering and worshipping our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ, the Creator of the Universe. To me that sounds like a gathering I want to be involved in … nothing like gathering with like-minded people who only want to adore the God that adores us.

    Please allow others to believe and experience God in the beautiful setting of the Grand Mesa. Contention is not of God … but love is. Extending the hand and heart of love will change the world … one by one by one.

  8. Lynne, I was just fixing to apologize to you publicly under Adrian’s post for MY tone in my comments to you, when I came across this, which included your kind words about me; and now I feel more awful than ever about the way I think I may have come across to you.

    So first, my apology: In re-reading my comments directed at you, I perceive I came off as angry, upset, and frustrated. Frustrated, maybe. But not at all angry. My responses were more the result of being puzzled. I wondered how someone I admire as I do you, could have presented what I took as a deliberate attempt to sabotage a party I plan to go to.

    I realize now that it wasn’t deliberate. Having written a share of legal briefs and memorandums myself, I fully understand the detached tone you employed in expressing your questions.

    So I’m not mad at you; never was. Baffled and confused, I’ll admit. I love you, Lynne, and I appreciate your attempt at clarifying your intentions. I am embarrassed to be seen in the photo above holding the sign that says “There is only love in heaven. Only love” and then failing (as I FREQUENTLY do) to convey that kind of love in my online responses. So mea culpa to everyone for the way I may have come off. Whatever huffy impression my comments conveyed, I assure you I was not writing with that intent.

    Now, if I may comment on part of your post above, where you wrote:

    “Is Bret Corbridge actually a prophet of God who speaks personally with Christ? Does he organize all things pertaining to this gathering under the direction of Christ? He says publicly that he does.

    “If this is true, then I need to repent, get on board, do whatever I can possibly do within my own sphere of influence to advertise and promote it, get myself over to the Remnant Family Reunion to show love, solidarity and support for the emerging Zion family, and do the honeycomb dance with my sisters.”

    Not necessarily. First, we deserve to get over the idea that anyone who speaks personally with Christ is a prophet who deserves to be heeded. (I would note here that I have no idea to what degree Bret claims these communications; is he receiving very strong impressions, a distinct voice he hears in his head, or is he sitting in the same room across from Christ physically manifesting himself? I don’t know. But to me, the extent of the communication is not that relevant, for reasons I’ll explain in a moment.)

    Assuming Bret is receiving a thumbs up from heaven for his idea of hosting a reunion, we need not read anything more into it than this: the planning of a reunion to get a bunch of like-minded individuals together to finally meet in person is a pretty swell idea.

    People who have wondered if this thing is worth their time, expense, and effort have been reminded by Bret that it’s really intended for those who pray and get an answer they should go. That’s who should go. It doesn’t matter if Jesus was in the same room with Bret when he gave his approval, it doesn’t matter how inspired it is, and even if the Lord Himself directs every facet of the affair right down to whether I’m inspired to bring chips or chicken to the potluck, the only thing that matters is that this event is probably a good idea for those who feel it’s a good idea for them to attend. If Jesus inspired Bret to organize this event, then that still doesn’t make it imperative for everyone to get behind it, promote it, support it, or participate in it. Heck, as much as I love joyful circle dancing, I recognize that not everyone who actually shows up will care to join me in that circle.

    In short, there has been no decree from heaven that this event is to be the Be All And End All event to usher in the millennial thousand years of peace.

    Those who opt to stay home need not feel they might be missing out on the great meeting at Adam-Ondi-Ahman. I think we’re going to have some great spiritual experiences, of the type I remember from Girl’s Camp (yes, I once attended girl’s camp, and the testimony meeting was AWESOME!). I also don’t expect this to be the foundational meeting from whence the future leaders of Zion will emerge. At bottom, it IS a family reunion, plain and simple. It will be fun. I expect it to be spiritually rewarding. We will most likely gain wisdom and insight. If the Lord has put his stamp of approval on this (all I know is he put his stamp of approval on my going), we need not read any more into that than what it is: an event that some of us will greatly benefit personally from by attending.

    Is it possible this thing could run off the rails? Well, here is the warning sign I think all who attend are intelligent enough to recognize if it happens: If someone emerges who tries to cast himself as the spiritual leader of the group. Or if someone has some big idea about how we can take over the church and reform it. Or if someone suggests we start another damn breakoff. I think those of us who have come this far are not likely to blindly follow the agenda of anyone who might claim to have the true way.

    Bret and Samantha’s efforts to put this thing together don’t make either one of them the “leader.” Bret has gone to incredible lengths to keep his imprint off it, to the point that he is not even planning to speak. To me, that really says something. If this shindig was my idea, I’m pretty sure I would position myself as the center of attention. This event is designed specifically so that no one emerges in that role. We already have enough Take Charge types in our lives; we don’t need another showing up to ruin things.

    We are getting together as a group of equals. It is loosely organized for a reason. There is no hierarchy, and no parts of it everyone is expected to participate in. It certainly won’t be about the speakers, otherwise the speakers would have been announced before this. (Can you imagine how many more attendees we could have attracted if it was announced Denver Snuffer would be speaking there? And can you imagine how many attendees would come because they just can’t help looking to him for further instruction?)

    We Mormons have a fatal design flaw that has developed over lifetimes of conditioning. We seek leadership. Those who have recognized the current Church leaders are lacking certain gifts still tend to look for replacement leaders. What makes Denver Snuffer a hero in my book is that he refuses to fill that role. He will not be the one to give us further instruction. He recognizes that we already have a leader in Jesus Christ. We just get to recognize He is the only Master we need.

    But we do have a secondary need, and that is the need to associate in person with others who share that desire we have to follow the Master. That, in my opinion, is the role this reunion will fill. We’ll have some fun, feel the spirit, make lasting friendships, then pull ups stakes and go home. We will not plot out the map of some new future Zion, start a new church, or even start any kind of movement. (Whatever “movement” is in the works has already begun, and needs no formal organization to lend it credibility or “authority.”)

    What I expect to accomplish most of all in Colorado is to put names to faces I already know from online conversations, and to make lasting friendships with others who until now have been unknown to me. Joseph Smith once said “The Grand Fundamental of Mormonism is friendship.” That’s what I hope to take away from all of this, and that’s why I’m going: Because I like Mormonism, and if I can poke my head into Colorado for one weekend where I know the Grand Fundamental of my religion will be taking place, well, heck. Count me in!

    1. Rock, you “stole my answer”. Thank you. 🙂

      I wanted to add: the main issue I still have with your approach, Lynne, is that you are still thinking inside the Mormon box. Rock illuminated that really well.

      One of the most liberating and blessed things that God has worked out, within me, is that I now trust my conscience, and I’m not always walking the razor-edge of works-based salvation. In works-based salvation, messing up is THE WORST THING YOU CAN POSSIBLY DO. EVER. It’s very much the “sinners in the hands of an angry God” approach, and it’s a path of stress and defeat. We will never be good enough, we will never get it all right.

      But that’s why Christ came. He came so we could learn from our mistakes. He came so we could walk, repentant, with Him, and learn not only directly from His word to us, but experientially. We can learn from our mistakes; the most powerful way to learn.

      Don’t be afraid to make mistakes. Teachers, artists, psychologists, and a host of other specialists have been teaching for years that we humans learn best by making mistakes . . . and while we each personally never desire to make them, make them we will. Denver said, in Saint George, “Sometimes I think I have a compass that points south”. He makes mistakes. He followed that statement up with some of the most beautiful and mercy-filled words that God works with us, corrects us **gently**, and leads us along as we are willing to learn.

      If we’re all losing sleep at night over whether or not something is a horrible mistake, we’re not learning. It’s not possible to learn when you’re in a deeply stressful situation–that’s one of the reasons children from dysfunctional or abusive homes have such poor grades. They are constantly under stress, and their brains and bodies aren’t in a state that’s conducive to learning. Very few figure out how to overcome that.

      Something to consider carefully: We are, all of us, coming out of an extremely dysfunctional and spiritually abusive “home”.

      The best remedy for that is to see how a healthy “home” functions. The retreat/reunion could be one place that can happen. We should all be seeking the Lord, and finding out if there’s a church He would have us attend for a while, or several churches He would have us bounce around from. Jesus has used those who love Him, in my community, to help deprogram me, and I thank Him every day for the experiences I’ve had and the things I’ve learned through them and their churches.

      1. If you think the Holy Ghost, God or Christ is speaking to you, then you are still brain washed.

  9. “Another possibility is that we’re ALL delusional”



    Thank you for acknowledging this.

    1. “when one person suffers from a delusion it is called insanity. When many people suffer from a delusion it is called religion.” – Robert Pirsig

  10. I think it’s important to distinguish between the two types of gatherings.

    Here’s a quote from the DS Phoenix lecture describing what I believe to be the intent of this reunion and all other gatherings going on at present.

    “Therefore, part of the preparation by God’s house for coming social chaos is likely to include some preliminary preparations by families and friends to fellowship with one
    another in local gatherings, perhaps completely apart from control by the LDS hierarchy. Only by independently functioning can they hope to prepare for social chaos prophesied to accompany Zion and precede the Lord’s return.”

    This is quite different from THE gathering that will require us to leave our homes and flee from Babylon. Denver states that the Angels will do this gathering. Of course, he would be opposed to such a gathering if a man organized it.

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